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Looks like Linn has forgotten about their existing customer. What about Kivor control. I have invested in Linn for years and it feels like we've been forgotten about.

The Kivor product line has not been forgotten about. For example, earlier this year in partnership with AMX we shipped a new XiVA control module for the Akurate Music Server and Kivor. There are further product improvements planned.

It's true that there is a lot of focus on open protocols and the DS products. The DS architecture and its support for UPnP is designed to participate in your open, cross vendor, digitial home. As Linn executes on its roadmap we'll be able to bring high performance audio to our customers in the most flexible and open way possible.

The XiVA protocol as used in the Akurate Music Server is open, and well supported in the custom install market, but it doesn't have the scope of UPnP. So far XiVA has not made significant inroads into other product areas.

You posted your commend against the "Linn OSS site" announcement - are you specifically looking for open source implentations of Xiva control?

Hi,

I'm just looking for something that can give me better control of the Kivor. The current interface is pretty basic, and I'd like to be able to see album art etc from some kind of wireless/ir remote control. RCU's are OK but not easy to use with the Kivor.

Personally I'd be happy to pay for a universal controller which would control my entire system including the Kivor.

Imerge which also uses (and develops) the Xiva protocol offers on screen album art and interoperability with remotes like Nevo's - it is disappointing not to see Linn offer this kind of thing as well.

Is there an roadmap info available about plans for the Kivor also where can I get info on the AMX control you mention.

Some of the instructions for DS refer to the need to have so-and-so version of firmware for Kinos or Kisto - but we lack guidance either in those documents or elsewhere on where to get this firmware. Can these forums assist in any way, or is one simply referred to the dealer?

I agree the focus of Linn has been more on the DS products that I can understand. What I don't understand is that Linn has taken a road in the opposite direction of the customer that can afford the product. Look at this from the NON LINN RELIGION customer base. We have someone that makes millions of dollars a year and the AMS and DS products are not user friendly for the guy that just wants to turn on his system and listen (an example is when the NAS drive is off he has to turn that on and then wait, make the MILLIONAIRE WAIT???). He is more apt to use itunes for ease of use instead of trying to figure out upnp and winamp for playlists. I hope someone in Linn is reading this. As a Linn dealer the Non Linn Religion customer will just write a check compared to the Linn religion customer that will need many hours of learning and then finally will want to pay a few dollars above dealer cost LOL. In my humble opinion the new customer doesn't have time to play figuring out things so ease of use will trump quality.

I think the Linn RCU is wonderful and keeps the profits and reliability within Linn. Make the DS work with RCU that is first priority. Second is make a regular IR control have direct access to the main room or local inputs without having the toggle nightmare and you will see your dealers who like Linn sell a lot more of the RCU based sound systems instead of cherry pick the line and sell that miserable Crestron and AMX.

Better yet make the Linn products work better with IR instead of AMX and Crestron. So to better understand the problem as a dealer I want to sell sound systems not expensive buttons. If your customer is going to spend X amount of money I rather sell more sound and less control because his bottom line is X. So all you Linn engineers think of this if I have to sell more control then that is taking profits away from YOU! Make your stuff ridiculously easy to operate with RCU and IR and now we can sell the customer a less expensive control system and sell a better sound system. The new wealthy customer is tired of the AMX and Crestron nightmare. Seldom works the customer is furious because of the dealer's programer that disappeared or is working somewhere else which makes Linn look bad.

I personally think the Knekt system is wonderful because we can control within LINN. I think the engineers need to see how miserable they are making their customers who are not part of their religion and just want to hear their music. I am repeating this so this sinks in LOL. The NAS drive shut off now I have to start the NAS drive and it's rebooting. The AMS doesn't see the NAS I have to restart the AMS. 20 minutes passed now I have my appointment with my banker who is laughing at the system as I tried to share the Linn experience LOL. Get the picture?

Michael Idarecis

Why does anyone have to wait? NAS drives are designed to be left running permanently at low power. Controllers the same. The whole system is available instantly at the touch of a button. But I can't comment on this particular installation you are referring to without more detail.

Certainly that's the view that Apple takes; yet this is the road to low quality, low prices, throwaway products, and commoditisation of our whole industry. Rather than reproduce my article in the latest Off The Record trade newsletter here, I'd ask that you respond to me directly on the points that I raised which I believe speak directly to you on this subject.

The DS works fine with the RCU. I have personally upgraded existing Knekt customers to DS; it's easy and allows the (astonished) customer to extend the life of their existing Knekt infrastructure by minimum 20 more years.

What you can't do is browse and select media from the RCU, as you can with the Kivor. That is a decision we took in response to dealers saying the RCU is not fit-for-that-purpose. Nor do I think people want to do this with a wall-mounted controller. Instead, we offer a range of tablemount and handheld control options with colour screen intuitive interfaces for that purpose.

Totally agree. This is a huge advantage of Linn DS. It enables the entire Linn system to be controlled by IR, from a computer, from an internet tablet, from an iPaq, from an iPhone, from a cellphone. Ridiculously easy and ridiculously affordable.

Without the details of this particular system, it's hard to comment, other than to offer support if you require it.

gilad@linn.co.uk

Regards
Gilad

Hi Gilad,
As a new Linn customer who has just bought into the DS, but cannot see how or what controller actually works (see recent comments on the iPAQ / KinskyPDA) or whether Twonky is stable, usable or bothered about support for .flac in the future, I have not experienced your comment that it is either easy or affordable, although ridiculous does seem appropriate.

I was also told by the dealer that I could use Skweazy or iPhone, but those seem very far from usable as yet, whilst contradictory info in the Forums and Linndocs on the Nokia 800 doesn't help.

I would be delighted and most grateful to receive information on alternatives on how I can get my DS working, now some 2 weeks after purchase and with no prospect of a sensible controller solution in sight.

Thanks...TomP

In my case my Nokia N800 and Sommerfee's LeiaDS work perfectly.

Thanks for the quick reply, although here is the comment from the OSS link...
"Leia DS is not a complete application yet: Is has neither a beautiful UI nor does it contain a complete, 100% UPnP complaint stack yet. This will not be fulfilled until the release of the version 1.0 of Leia DS.

But nevertheless you can install it and use it, if you can live with all its current limitations like supporting only one DS device, missing cover images while browsing etc. "

...without identifying all the limitations. This doesn't seem nearly like a stable platform yet on which to base my investment. I'm also uncertain about whether this has to be used with or without Nokia Media Streamer.

Any more advice would be welcome. Thanks...TomP