Linn Forums
Linn Sara DMS to PMS Procedure - Printable Version

+- Linn Forums (https://forums.linn.co.uk/bb)
+-- Forum: Linn Music Systems & Hi-fi Separates (/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Hi-Fi Separates and Components (/forumdisplay.php?fid=11)
+--- Thread: Linn Sara DMS to PMS Procedure (/showthread.php?tid=12096)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34


RE: Linn Sara DMS to PMS Procedure - Mr Onion - 2012-07-09 18:36

^
is waiting with baited breath for the full review


RE: Linn Sara DMS to PMS Procedure - Dr_Eddie - 2012-07-09 18:41

(2012-07-09 18:09)Tony Tune-age Wrote:  Look forward to reading more Dr. Eddie Cool. So, will you be keeping both sets of Sara speaker

I certainly will Tony, this was no walkover. I had my good friend Paul R over. He made the journey over from Saffron Waldron in Essex, in his Audi TT Sports, ( no hardship really Big Grin ).

We listened to a few albums before we made the switch, and we both thought the new speakers had a mountain to climb. These are still beasts by any standard.
I'll be honest, I didn't think they'd even come close.
Linn knew a thing or two.Cool


RE: Linn Sara DMS to PMS Procedure - Tony Tune-age - 2012-07-09 18:48

Wow, this project sounds even more interesting now Cool.

(2012-07-09 18:41)Dr_Eddie Wrote:  
(2012-07-09 18:09)Tony Tune-age Wrote:  Look forward to reading more Dr. Eddie Cool. So, will you be keeping both sets of Sara speaker

I certainly will Tony, this was no walkover. I had my good friend Paul R over. He made the journey over from Saffron Waldron in Essex, in his Audi TT Sports, ( no hardship really Big Grin ).

We listened to a few albums before we made the switch, and we both thought the new speakers had a mountain to climb. These are still beasts by any standard.
I'll be honest, I didn't think they'd even come close.
Linn knew a thing or two.Cool



RE: Linn Sara DMS to PMS Procedure - Dr_Eddie - 2012-07-09 19:07

Yes, it was a fascinating contest, David VS Goliath. Science against soul. Which one would win ? and by how much ?

It had to be done/tried...............but you'd never guess what happened in a million years.
That's what makes this hobby so much fun. I absolutely know for sure that Linn tried every single B200 variant Kef ever made before settling on the SP1014. They had a very good reason for picking that one IMHO. It's why?, that my friends is the burning question that I inadvertantly answered by making the Sara X.


RE: Linn Sara DMS to PMS Procedure - Tony Tune-age - 2012-07-09 20:01

It certainly is an interesting hobby, and can be fun as well Cool. However, there are times when it doesn't seem very fun...LOL Rolleyes

I can't wait to see pictures of the new pair, and how they compare with the previous pair Smile.

(2012-07-09 19:07)Dr_Eddie Wrote:  Yes, it was a fascinating contest, David VS Goliath. Science against soul. Which one would win ? and by how much ?

It had to be done/tried...............but you'd never guess what happened in a million years.
That's what makes this hobby so much fun. I absolutely know for sure that Linn tried every single B200 variant Kef ever made before settling on the SP1014. They had a very good reason for picking that one IMHO. It's why?, that my friends is the burning question that I inadvertantly answered by making the Sara X.



RE: Linn Sara DMS to PMS Procedure - Dr_Eddie - 2012-07-28 19:11

Sara X The Next Generation ?

6 months of hard graft, and now I have, at last, something to show for it. I will break the habit of waiting, until they are finished in the build, before showing you the completed speaker.

Here are a couple of shots to show you the appearance.

[Image: DSC00960.jpg]

hosting images

[Image: DSC00959.jpg]

image upload


Shock! Horror! They look exactly like normal Saras. They are not though. To the trained eye there are some clues.

The real giveaway is the Kef convex dustcap for the B200. This is much wider than the normal throat of the SP1014. Of course this is hidden normally by the white belly dustcaps of the standard Linn units. Also the chassis of these units is far more rigid and sturdy.
The voice coil in this unit is not only much larger in diameter, but is made of flat wound aluminium. It can thus withstand far higher temperatures than the copper round voice coil of the 1014. It can also handle 80 watts instead of 50. Therefore a pair of these 1039 equipped Saras can soak up a massive 620 watts RMS continuous music provided you can supply 4 power amps capable of delivering such a clean undistorted signal. That sort of output is likely to bring the police though.
You should be able to listen at high SP levels without the speakers breaking into a sweat, plenty of headroom in other words.

But it’s not all about power, which is only part of the story.

Because of the massive improvement in the strength of the magnetic field provided by the huge motor assembly, the cone will more accurately follow the signal provided by the amp. The music should therefore be more accurate and less coloured. The signal should be much faster, precise and more detailed too. Notes should start and stop quicker.

That’s the theory anyway. In practice there are quite a few detail modifications inside this latest pair which addresses some weaknesses I found in the first pair I rebuilt.

To understand why I deemed them necessary, we will look at the rebuild to show you these differences. Most of you have probably read through this entire thread completely, but if not, do so now to acquaint yourself with the rebuild of the original pair. The detail differences will make more sense.

The first thing you notice with this new pair is the extra weight. These are seriously heavy speakers now. Lugging them around is back breaking. However this does ensure they sit far more rigidly on the stands. Considering that removing the crossovers for Active service means the removal of all this junk……………….

[Image: DSC00933.jpg]

image upload

Then, allowing for that loss, the amount of extra weight carried in those large motor units is quite considerable.
One can also see why Active speakers so outperform their passive counterparts. Getting all that wiring and assorted components out of the signal path can only improve matters, allowing the power amp to exert far more grip on the speaker cone’s excursions.

First though, I’m sure most of you will want to know how they sound.
Lets then start with the full review.

On the 8th July , I had an experienced pair of ears over here attached to a good friend of mine of many years. I wanted his honest opinion of the sound quality.

First we listened to some familiar material on the original Linn white belly pair
Tracey Chapman, Tower of Power, Harry James, James Newton Howard and Friends, Black Sabbath, Police, Outlandos D’Amour.

All these were played first. It was hard to imagine anything beating this. We both agreed on this.

Lugging the new pair in was back breaking, a good half a stone heavier easily.

We made sure the speakers were firmly planted on the stands and played the last track again back to back.

They at least sounded as good out of the box as the other fully run in pair.
But within two hours, they had eclipsed the earlier pair. There was definitely more attack on the drums and the mid band had more weight and authority too.

Resolution and speed were gaining ground fast too.
In fact playing James Newton Howard’s Sheffield Labs direct cut was an unforgettable experience. Never in all my life have I heard drums and percussion so palpably real that it suspends belief. If the other pair were fast these were like quicksilver. There was a great sense of focus too. Each instrument in its own space.

The speed and agility was breathtaking, but something else was happening too. The top end from the new ferrofluid Scanspeaks was also eclipsing the earlier pair.
How could this be ? they are the same unit.

I dunno either but, it was there, fact and it was getting better by the hour.
After 40 hours of running in the gains in sweetness, resolution and information retrieval was gobsmacking. Another feature now prominent is the huge dynamic swing that these boxes can muster.

They can literally explode a sound into the room so fast it actually makes you jump.
Although they are more efficient than the earlier pair, they seem to draw more current from the 135’s, the bass channel amps getting warm enough to kick in the fans on a regular basis. Practically unheard of.

What they bring to the music with these features is a sense of drive and unstoppable momentum. Rolling on a River……dada dum, literally. The toe tapping factor is huge.

You are relentlessly sucked in, swished around and spat out at the end of side, which comes all too quickly.

One thing has become very clear, listening to these. They are so revealing, and merciless in their clarity, that anything other than a fully loaded SE is going to sound rubbish. Linn realised that when playing an LP12 that didn’t even boast a Valhalla through them whilst developing them. Putting a better bass unit in made them sound worse, especially as the original Scanspeak tweeter had a notchy response that didn’t help the top end at all. They could sound quite hard at times. So Linn had to compromise.

They went with the SP1014 because it was less of a spotlight on the TT.. Of course things are so different now we can take advantage of the huge improvements to our old favourite fruitbox. It is now an incredible.source, in its fully loaded SE configuration.

And so now, the Sara X makes perfect sense, but only if you have the right front end.
I’m in awe of them, Linn got the basic design so right. I bet if IT heard these now, even he would be amazed.

Legendary. Mate. You got it right.

Next instalment, the detail differences.


RE: Linn Sara DMS to PMS Procedure - Tony Tune-age - 2012-07-30 15:35

Another fine write-up Dr. Eddie! That was certainly a great deal of effort that you put into rebuilding both sets of Sara speakers. And nice picures of the second pair as well. At this point you can sit back and enjoy!


RE: Linn Sara DMS to PMS Procedure - Dr_Eddie - 2012-07-31 14:36

Thanks Tony, the intention here was that whilst rebuilding them I would revisit and re-examine each and every aspect of the construction. The fact is, I only found a handful of things that could be improved. That says a lot for the integrity of the design in the first place.

I know many speaker manufacturers use Chord and other cables inside their speakers, I eschewed this on the same grounds Linn did. In the end, the signal is carried to the voice coils on tiny thin braided wires less than 1mm round. I could have used Naim A5 in there, but in the end decided to stick to what I know works.
The transformer cable correctly aligned sounds superb, so why waste money. Once burnt in, this stuff sounds very high end, and is incredibly durable. The gaskets work to perfection, so I went with these again and so on.
However, the weaknesses that I did find yielded great dividends once sorted.

As you say , I am just enjoying superb music now, but I will finish this thread with the appropriate rebuild details and pictures. Thanks for being an avid follower


RE: Linn Sara DMS to PMS Procedure - Tony Tune-age - 2012-07-31 15:04

You have done a good job with the write-up for both projects. It's been fairly easy to understand how and why you made the various changes on these speakers. Probably not many people would have the patients to rebuild a set of Sara speakers with such detail and effort, let alone rebuilding two pairs!

If understood correctly, the recent upgraded pair of Sara speakers are active only and the previous pair can be used in either active or passive mode...correct?


RE: Linn Sara DMS to PMS Procedure - Dr_Eddie - 2012-07-31 15:28

I could use these passively, using the crossover boxes built for the earlier pair. The components used are identical.
Its just that passive is a huge let down once you've heard what an Active system can do. Thus I went straight to full on Active.

So these are equally as flexible as the earlier pair. I can thus send 2 power amps back to Naim for servicing or repair and still be able to listen to my system, but in passive mode only.