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Linn Sara DMS to PMS Procedure - Printable Version

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RE: Linn Sara DMS to PMS Procedure - Dr_Eddie - 2011-11-27 02:22

I reckon the Big Briks are easier than the Sara though, many people told me the Sara was impossible to convert to Active from Passive but it is quite staightforward, if time consuming.
The big advantage with the Isobarik is that the rear driver can be removed through the hole left by the front driver, no special mounting ring as on the Sara.

Should be doable if careful.


RE: Linn Sara DMS to PMS Procedure - CaledonianFE - 2011-11-27 13:13

(2011-11-20 15:14)Dr_Eddie Wrote:  
(2011-11-19 12:11)CaledonianFE Wrote:  @ Dr_Eddie

Have you heard any of the 'usual suspects', such as Naim CDS, CDSII, Linn Karik/Numerik, Sondek CD12? I am intrigued by the latter, for no other reason than to see it it can truly live up to the Sondek name? I have my doubts, to say the least...

I wonder if TFR/HFR supremo, and arch CD critc, Chris Frankland, ever found a satisfactory CD player?

Apologies for continuing OT.

Yes, I've heard the Naim players and many others too. The trouble is my vinyl replay is now so ridiculously far ahead of CD that I can't waste time listening to it. The pull of vinyl is just too strong. I fear the same is true of the DS too. There just aren't enough bits to include all the data I'm effortlessly pulling off vinyl, and that is a fact that will never change.
You can't invent data that isn't already there, you can only lose it.

So for that reason for digital I'm out, and I suspect CF would be in my camp too.
Having said that I believe DVD audio is very good and with a well installed home cinema set up the visual aspect adds so much immersion, that the audio is seemingly much enhanced. You can gain a lot of satisfaction watching a great DVD concert.
CD? forget it though.

CF did have some (relatively) positive things to say about some CD players (Arcam, Meridian, Micromega transports/DACs, if memory serves) in the final few issues of HFR, though very much in the context of "good...for a CD player".
It's a pity that HFR ceased publication the the very year that Linn & Naim released their first players - it would have been very interesting to see what CF made of them, given that, IMO, he was the best reviewer ever to 'put pen to paper', as it were. Hell, it's a pity the HFR ceased publication at all! SadSadSad

So, you've not heard that CD12, then?

Anyway, back on topic (for a change!) - currently having unexpectedly (given their relativity low cost, and entry level status) pleasant experience of some Index Plus speakers, and inspired by your evident enthusiasm for the Saras, do you have any hints/tips/advice for someone who might be on the look-out for a pair of Saras? A kind of buyer's guide, if you will (when you get a break from you Sara projects!)? Wink Rolleyes

Also, have you any experience of 'follow-up' range of Linn speakers e.g. Keilidh, Kaber - how do they compare with Sara, Isobarik etc.? Still in the Classic, Flat Earth Linn mode, and consequently, worth consideration?

TIA.


RE: Linn Sara DMS to PMS Procedure - Tony Tune-age - 2011-11-27 16:46

(2011-11-27 02:22)Dr_Eddie Wrote:  I reckon the Big Briks are easier than the Sara though, many people told me the Sara was impossible to convert to Active from Passive but it is quite staightforward, if time consuming.
The big advantage with the Isobarik is that the rear driver can be removed through the hole left by the front driver, no special mounting ring as on the Sara.

Should be doable if careful.

Interesting information, it might be a lot of work and very time consuming as well. But the results should be worth the effort tooCool


RE: Linn Sara DMS to PMS Procedure - Dr_Eddie - 2011-11-29 18:30


CF did have some (relatively) positive things to say about some CD players (Arcam, Meridian, Micromega transports/DACs, if memory serves) in the final few issues of HFR, though very much in the context of "good...for a CD player".
It's a pity that HFR ceased publication the the very year that Linn & Naim released their first players - it would have been very interesting to see what CF made of them, given that, IMO, he was the best reviewer ever to 'put pen to paper', as it were. Hell, it's a pity the HFR ceased publication at all! SadSadSad

So, you've not heard that CD12, then?

Anyway, back on topic (for a change!) - currently having unexpectedly (given their relativity low cost, and entry level status) pleasant experience of some Index Plus speakers, and inspired by your evident enthusiasm for the Saras, do you have any hints/tips/advice for someone who might be on the look-out for a pair of Saras? A kind of buyer's guide, if you will (when you get a break from you Sara projects!)? Wink Rolleyes

Also, have you any experience of 'follow-up' range of Linn speakers e.g. Keilidh, Kaber - how do they compare with Sara, Isobarik etc.? Still in the Classic, Flat Earth Linn mode, and consequently, worth consideration?

TIA.
[/quote]

No I've not actually heard a CD12, but the fact that Linn stopped making it is not lost on me. The Index was a good speaker, not brilliant but decent enough.

When buying Saras the main thing to look out for is drive unit integrity.
Gently press on the cones just on the joint between the white belly dustcap and cone itself. There should be resistance to movement caused by the compressed air in the cabinet, but the cone should not make any scraping noises. The tweeter can be changed quite cheaply but the bass units need to be in good undamaged condition.
The absolute finish on the cabinets is not too important, most scuffs and light scratching can be removed by the application of fine wire wool and teak oiling afterwards. As long as they are not too distressed looking, the superb internal build quality will ensure they still perform.

Expect tp pay about £350 for a decent pair of Saras with stands.
The stands are very important in the picture, a large part of their magic is in the stands. Hopefully the powder coating is in reasonable condition.

You'd need to spend a shedload of dosh to outperform these, none of the speakers that Linn produced after the Sara, Kan and Isobarik ever threated to topple these classics off the podium IMO.
They are still improving with the source, there seems to be no limit to what they are capable of. Truly astounding pieces of genius.

I hope this answers your query.

Best Regards Eddie.


RE: Linn Sara DMS to PMS Procedure - Dr_Eddie - 2011-11-29 18:55

Strangely enough I've just come across an HFR review of the Linn Sara 9 by Malcolm Steward , he normally was a Naim Active SBL enthusiast so it is an interesting review. There are some untrue statements though, about the crossover limiting the rear bass driver to 150Hz. This is nonsense. The rear driver gets the same signal as the front. The only Sara 9 that was better than the earlier models was the biwirable very late models just before they ceased production, although Malcolm states otherwise.Still he's entitled to his opinion.

Worth uploading if you lot are interested.


RE: Linn Sara DMS to PMS Procedure - JBGWild - 2011-12-09 22:12

Hi Dr Eddie, an amazing story indeed. I bought a pair of active Saras earlier this year from a certain online auction site for just over 200 quid and still can't believe how fantastic they are. They do everything you say, if not more. CF and co used to insist on NAP250s minimum but mine are driven by a pair of 'lowly' NAP90s, fed from a mid 80s Valhalla'ed LP12 with a pre-production (black) ARO and Rega Exact. The system simply transcends hifi and I just enjoy the musicians in the room. They throw out a rock solid 'image' with as you say, real 'dynamics', again, not in a hifi way but as if the instruments and singers are really there in the room. They also have more rhythm than the entire Caribbean, my girlfriend, who is not a big fan of my tunes, foot starts tapping within minutes of her entering the room. Nothing Ive heard does drums and percussion like them, and of course if they are sorted the rest of the band just lock in around them. As an added bonus I had to wait several months to find my NAXO and bought a pair of Mk1 Kans to tide me over. They are pretty special too and was a bit worried when I finally got my hands on a crossover I would be disappointed with the Saras. . No contest however good the Kans are. It would be interesting to compare the Saras to the new Isobariks but at the end of the day mine won't be replaced, ever. And I have the enjoyable prospect of upgrading the amps over time too. Any suggestions on Sara stand top spikes? My stands are missing them....

Cheers John


RE: Linn Sara DMS to PMS Procedure - mickc - 2011-12-09 22:20

(2011-11-29 18:55)Dr_Eddie Wrote:  Strangely enough I've just come across an HFR review of the Linn Sara 9 by Malcolm Steward , he normally was a Naim Active SBL enthusiast so it is an interesting review. There are some untrue statements though, about the crossover limiting the rear bass driver to 150Hz. This is nonsense. The rear driver gets the same signal as the front. The only Sara 9 that was better than the earlier models was the biwirable very late models just before they ceased production, although Malcolm states otherwise.Still he's entitled to his opinion.

Worth uploading if you lot are interested.

Yes please, Dr_Eddie. I had a pair of Sara's for most of the 'eighties and remember them fondly.

Mick


RE: Linn Sara DMS to PMS Procedure - Dr_Eddie - 2011-12-10 16:45

(2011-12-09 22:12)JBGWild Wrote:  Hi Dr Eddie, an amazing story indeed. I bought a pair of active Saras earlier this year from a certain online auction site for just over 200 quid and still can't believe how fantastic they are. They do everything you say, if not more. CF and co used to insist on NAP250s minimum but mine are driven by a pair of 'lowly' NAP90s, fed from a mid 80s Valhalla'ed LP12 with a pre-production (black) ARO and Rega Exact. The system simply transcends hifi and I just enjoy the musicians in the room. They throw out a rock solid 'image' with as you say, real 'dynamics', again, not in a hifi way but as if the instruments and singers are really there in the room. They also have more rhythm than the entire Caribbean, my girlfriend, who is not a big fan of my tunes, foot starts tapping within minutes of her entering the room. Nothing Ive heard does drums and percussion like them, and of course if they are sorted the rest of the band just lock in around them. As an added bonus I had to wait several months to find my NAXO and bought a pair of Mk1 Kans to tide me over. They are pretty special too and was a bit worried when I finally got my hands on a crossover I would be disappointed with the Saras. . No contest however good the Kans are. It would be interesting to compare the Saras to the new Isobariks but at the end of the day mine won't be replaced, ever. And I have the enjoyable prospect of upgrading the amps over time too. Any suggestions on Sara stand top spikes? My stands are missing them....

Cheers John

Wonderful feedback, John, your system is obviously truly locked in and working to its peak, it reminds me how tragically few people ever got to hear what the Sara could do in a system like yours. You are one of the really lucky ones, as indeed I count myself too.
It gives me a good vibe on my forthcoming migration to a full on Active system too. The top spikes on the stand are really important too in the bigger picture, you will leap forward in terms of musical detail retrieval if you can get hold of a set.

Originally they were manufactured by Quadropod for Linn. I'll see if I can locate a link or an alternative to the originals. I put small Philips crosshead screws into the base of the speaker cabinet so that the spikes locate firmly onto the screw head and not only prevent the spike from marking the cabinet but improves the rigidity and the music too.

If your cabinets are close to the back wall behind the speaker, you should also investigate making a pair of wall braces to locate in a srewhead in the top back of the cabinet. This is the nuts.

In your system it will blow your mind. Check out this thread here

http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=11090

Enjoy, whilst I'm spike searching.......................................


RE: Linn Sara DMS to PMS Procedure - JBGWild - 2011-12-10 20:47

Hi,

Thanks, I appreciate your efforts and screw tip. I guess a photo of them may enable me to get a local engineering company to try and knock some up if you come up blank? The wall brace idea sounds totally logical too, I will try that. Beyond my handyman skills but I was going to get my chippie to make some more mdf spiked boards for the rest of black boxes soon anyway. The references to old hifi mags is fun too, I got my old Flat Responses and Hifi Reviews down from the loft a while back and have been reading through them. Cf was definitely OTT with it all on occasion though. I was re-reading the HFR issue with both the original Ekos and ARO reviews and bless him he went for the Ekos, admitting he had hardly heard the ARO. Great for Linn though!

I dont understand why more people don't go the active route, it's the difference between night and day IMHO. Ive spent the last 20 years living with an active Nytech/ ARC101 system which finally started to die last year. I still miss the Nytechs a bit, they had a wonderful natural tone to my ears but the grip and control of the Salisbury boxes is so beguiling. I understand most studios effectively use active monitoring for example. Talking of Saras again, there has been a crop of them on a certain UK auction site, two pairs on this evening in fact if anyone wants to join the 'club'.

Also sounds like it might be worth getting my NAXO 'tuned' for the Saras? It was allegedly owned by Mr Vereker himself so I guess might be set for SBLs.

Thanks again..regards John


RE: Linn Sara DMS to PMS Procedure - Dr_Eddie - 2011-12-11 02:33

Yes, getting the Naxo tweaked for the Sara 3Khz crossover point is well worth the effort. The SBL used 2.7 Khz, not a huge difference admittedly but at this level of quality probably quite noticeable.

My Snaxo2 is away at Naim being repaired ( RH bass channel inop ). It is under warranty, but whilst its with Mummy, I thought I'd take advantage of realigning it for Saras.

As you say, they are quite plentiful on that well known auction site. Active speakers are used quite extensively in Professional Recording Studios, for the main reason being much lower levels of colouration and lack of compression. The amazing thing about the Sara though is in 27 years of owning them I've never been able to find their limit. As my TT and amps etc have improved , they have just been getting better and better. It has now got to the stage where they don't sound like a loudspeaker any more. They transcend the boxes, listen to them blindfolded and try to decide how big the cabinet is ? Impossible task, Dr Who's tardus is more likely.
And the music just flows out of them unrestrained. Ken Kessler may rave about his Wilson Sophia 3's , but that's only cos he hasn't heard a decent pair of Saras on song.
They really ARE that good.