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Seperate Ethernet Switch - little wong - 2009-02-19 10:23
Linn recommend a seperate Ethernet switch.
Fine I understand the logic to that. Only problem not being a network expert I'm not sure how to intergrate that into my existing (simple) network.
I've currently got an all in one ADSL/Router/DHCP/Swtich which is working fine with my setup.
If I get a seperate switch do I just connect this to the above and plug the DS and NAS into the new switch and this would improve things?
My logic is that the music streams from the NAS, through the new/seperate swtich directly to the DS.
My wireless controller (itouch) will still route through my old router but that's not an issue as that's not streaming the music right? Similarly for the DHCP assigning IPs.
Is my logic correct or do I have to ditch my existing all in one and get a seperate components?
RE: Seperate Ethernet Switch - JasonSwain - 2009-02-19 10:52
You are correct. The idea with is switch is that it sets up point to point links between the communicating devices, whereas in the old days when we used hubs instead of switches the network traffic would be sent across the entire network.
Since you already have a switch I am not sure if this will make a major improvement. Are you seeing any problems at the moment. If not then your current network setup is probably fine. When you run out of ports on your integrated switch though you could get an external switch and configure the network as you describe above.
The iPod touch generally does not have much impact on the network, it sets up the playback and from then on the NAS sends data directly to the DS. This is why you can turn off your ControlPoint and the music keeps playing. When browsing the library or loading album art the iPod touch can cause quite a bit of network traffic, but it is all going over a slow wireless link anyway so it is not significant in terms of total network bandwidth.
Here's how things should look with a seperate switch:
ADSL/Switch/DHCP Computers iPod wireless
| | ~
----------------------------------------
|
New Switch
|
--------------------------
| |
NAS DS
This will isolate the music transport to a direct link from the NAS and the DS.
Just out of interest I calculated the requred bandwidth for a FLAC track, it's only a few hundred bits per second. Most wired networks these days are 100 mega-bits per second, so if you have a single music stream you should have plenty of bandwidth.
RE: Seperate Ethernet Switch - eamonnb - 2009-02-19 12:08
JasonSwain Wrote:Since you already have a switch I am not sure if this will make a major improvement.
Linn's philosphy in recommending a separate switch is that it will do one job very well.
All in one boxes (wireless router/switch/modem) do various jobs but not necessarily very well. By relieving your all in one box of its switching responsibilities you'll be helping it to perform its other task(s) more efficiently. We also recommend a separate wireless access point for the same reason. Exactly the same philosphy applies to hifi components.
Your all in one box will probably do the job ok but as you increase its processing load you could experience a reduction in performance.
eamonn
RE: Seperate Ethernet Switch - TomBK - 2009-02-19 12:18
eamonnb Wrote:Your all in one box will probably do the job ok but as you increase its processing load you could experience a reduction in performance.
Hi eamonn
Would this affect audio quality or just streaming ability(fall-outs)?
Tom
RE: Seperate Ethernet Switch - little wong - 2009-02-19 12:32
eamonnb Wrote:Linn's philosphy in recommending a separate switch is that it will do one job very well.Thanks, but why would the WAP make a difference?
All in one boxes (wireless router/switch/modem) do various jobs but not necessarily very well. By relieving your all in one box of its switching responsibilities you'll be helping it to perform its other task(s) more efficiently. We also recommend a separate wireless access point for the same reason. Exactly the same philosphy applies to hifi components.
Your all in one box will probably do the job ok but as you increase its processing load you could experience a reduction in performance.
eamonn
I thought the wireless controller would only send orders to Twonky/DS to tell it which tracks to play. As I'm not using wireless to stream the music I don't see where performance would come into play. I'm only using wireless for internet or wireless control.
When I'm ripping CDs I'm hardwiring directly to my router as that's obvioulsy much faster!
Fully understand I could "compromise" my router when I'm ripping/surfing and listening all at the same time, hence I am investigating the cheap seperate switch route (excuse the pun!)
RE: Seperate Ethernet Switch - eamonnb - 2009-02-19 13:04
little wong Wrote:Thanks, but why would the WAP make a difference?
I thought the wireless controller would only send orders to Twonky/DS to tell it which tracks to play. As I'm not using wireless to stream the music I don't see where performance would come into play. I'm only using wireless for internet or wireless control.
When I'm ripping CDs I'm hardwiring directly to my router as that's obvioulsy much faster!
Fully understand I could "compromise" my router when I'm ripping/surfing and listening all at the same time, hence I am investigating the cheap seperate switch route (excuse the pun!)
The built-in WAP will not be as good as a standalone device and, furthermore, your control point responsiveness may be compromised when the router is being used to access the internet .
eamonn
RE: Seperate Ethernet Switch - krisweir - 2009-02-19 15:28
Also, you can place the WAP to give you the best coverage in your listening room, which may be at the other end of your house from the DSL router.
Re the switch, another advantage is that if you have to reboot your router - which seems to be a regular requirement for mine! - then your DS doesn't lose connection from the NAS - or WAP, if you've got one.
Ideally, you want two switches - one at the router end connecting PC's printers & possibly the NAS, and another at the music-room end with DS and local WAP connection. The FS108s are only about £25 now, so why not?
By the way, Jason, you need a few Megabits per second to reliably carry a top-quality audio stream. For example a Linn Studio Master can be 96k samples per second and 24 bits per sample. If sent as a WAV, this translates as 2.3Mbps not including the other overheads involved in sending IP data over Ethernet.
A general rule of thumb is that you should have a nominal 10Mbps free to ensure no dropouts. This is unlikely to be a problem with switched Ethernet, but you do have to be careful if lots of data is being sent through Ethernet-over-Power, for example!
RE: Seperate Ethernet Switch - little wong - 2009-02-19 16:13
krisweir Wrote:Ideally, you want two switches - one at the router end connecting PC's printers & possibly the NAS, and another at the music-room end with DS and local WAP connection. The FS108s are only about £25 now, so why not?Because it's so cheap that's why I was looking at this option
....but you do have to be careful if lots of data is being sent through Ethernet-over-Power, for example!
...and to also try and organise my IT equipment better.
I'm currently running dLAN 200mbps and have no issues what so ever, but I'm only using that exclusively for my DS within the same room.
RE: Seperate Ethernet Switch - JasonSwain - 2009-02-19 16:52
The point I was making is that on a standard wired network you have plenty of bandwidth, even 2 or 3 Mbps is insignificant on a 100 Mbps or gigabit network. Given that we are talking about a switched environment then that gives you an unshared 100 Mbps line to your NAS and DS. The DS is only going to be streaming or sending/receiving control events, so there is more than enough bandwidth here.
The NAS is a slightly different story, it could be shared with other devices, and there is almost certainly no QoS guarantees in the NAS, so if you were doing a large file transfer from a fast source then you could hog the bandwidth and cause a dropout no matter what switch you have. The only way to prevent this is to dedicate the NAS to music serving and be careful when ripping CD's.
The seperate switch suggestion doesn't make a lot of sense. A cheap 100 Mbps switch will have the switching implemented in hardware using the same or similar hardware switch ASIC as in your ADSL router, so there's not much benefit to this. You do have two switches instead of one, but that will not make any noticable difference. You could go for a gigabit switch, but it is unlikely that this would make a noticable difference either, and may make it worse for the NAS. The point about not interrupting your music streaming if you need to reboot your router is a good one, if you do need to reboot your router regularly.
RE: Seperate Ethernet Switch - eamonnb - 2009-02-19 17:28
TomBK Wrote:Would this affect audio quality or just streaming ability(fall-outs)?
Tom
Hi Tom
It will only affect streaming ability - not audio quality.
eamonn