WOW another Keel clone

[John G]

(2012-04-12 04:07)Mudcrutch Wrote:  

(2012-04-12 02:22)vicdiaz Wrote:  Well, I took a break today and installed the GS Sub. It took me less than two hours to strip up my LP12 and put it back again and BTW, it was very easy to achieve a perfect bounce. The only thing I will say is that it is a lot more tuneful than the standard sub-chassis. I wish I had a similar Keel'd setup to compare but I have no local Linn dealer anymore.

For the price and budget I did not expect less. If budget permitted I would have gone for a Keel, no doubt about that, but economy and exchange rates are not currently in my favor and importing UK goods + duties make it prohibitively expensive to get one, even the Rubikon.

Can /or do you have any pictures to post?
I so want to say
Nice
Mud

Not much to see other than the armboard unless Vic took some shots before installing it. There's several pictures of the GS on PFM and GS's own website if you're interested in seeing more. I have a few of the underside installed on my deck. I didn't bother taking any pictures before installing mine as there were plenty already out there.

[9designs]

Anyone have an idea how many Keel units likely to be sold ?....
Considering how many LP12s sold a big potential market, perhaps how many EKOS sold is better guide of potential buyers who could/would stump up the cost.
Was crunching some numbers today, putting a project plan and estimated costs together, just out of interest
Looks like a good little earner

[vicdiaz]

Here's the only pic I took with my iPhone:

[Paul]

(2012-04-12 15:08)ricsimas Wrote:  

(2012-04-12 10:37)Paul Wrote:  Hi Flat,

I regard your intellectual honesty but my observations weren't for you.
I understand ... Keel is a no compromise product made in very small numbers of pieces, only for few very wealthy and lucky customers that own a Linn or Naim tonearm (and not for all the "discriminated and luckyless" others). This "partly" explains becouse it is so expansive.
All this, for me, is not good commercial politic. One other example is: who buys a brand new LP12, must know he gets an obsolete or not updated TT. If he wants it updated, must throw away all the brand new but obsolete parts (motor, subchassis & armboard) and to replace them by the updated parts that cost much more than twice the entire (new but obsolete) LP12. Why must we pay for new obsolete parts and immediately after discarded them? All this is absurd, IMHO.

BR,
Paul

I like the notion that the Keel is for "wealthy" customers coming from someone with several LP12s in his signature.

Four LP12s costed me less than one keel! Or I made big bargains or the keel's price is a little (???) anomalous ....

[Cymbiosis Expert Linn Retailer]

(2012-04-13 03:13)vicdiaz Wrote:  Here's the only pic I took with my iPhone:

Vic, may I suggest you try a new mat

KR

Peter

[vicdiaz]

(2012-04-13 09:36)Cymbiosis Wrote:  

(2012-04-13 03:13)vicdiaz Wrote:  Here's the only pic I took with my iPhone:

Vic, may I suggest you try a new mat

KR

Peter

Thanks Peter! It's a 1985 original mat.

[ricsimas]

(2012-04-13 08:36)Paul Wrote:  Four LP12s costed me less than one keel! Or I made big bargains or the keel's price is a little (???) anomalous ....

Sounds like a miracle to me:

- VdH MC One: $1,500 back in the day
- PU7: GBP1,750.

Those two together are the price of the Keel. Unless you got everything else for free or you found those in the dumpster, it doesn't add up - sorry.

But that's enough - no more feeding the troll for me.

[Elbow]

(2012-04-12 14:45)Cymbiosis Wrote:  [quote='Paul' pid='188574' dateline='1334233460']
But what about someone that wants to buy an LP12 SE from the off, including Keel. Doesn't Linn offer the option to do this without having to buy an LP12 with the standard sub chassis first only then to discard that and fit a Keel as an upgrade? If not, that seems a bit daft to me.

One would not be able to ship an LP12 in the way an LP12 is shipped with the steel sub-chassis. Seperate packaging is required IMHO as otherwise damage would very likely occur. The safest thing to do for someone in this particular situation, is to retrieve the steel sub-chassis, fit the Keel and refund on the steel. - They are less than £60 + VAT new anyway. That's the common sense approach again.

KR

Peter

So Peter, if I ever had need to ship my LP12, would you advise removing the Keel first and shipping that separately?

[Paul]

(2012-04-13 12:21)ricsimas Wrote:  

(2012-04-13 08:36)Paul Wrote:  Four LP12s costed me less than one keel! Or I made big bargains or the keel's price is a little (???) anomalous ....

Sounds like a miracle to me:

- VdH MC One: $1,500 back in the day
- PU7: GBP1,750.

Those two together are the price of the Keel. Unless you got everything else for free or you found those in the dumpster, it doesn't add up - sorry.

But that's enough - no more feeding the troll for me.

Dear Ric,
I'm sorry if my bargains have hurted you. I wrote 4 LP12s not arms and cartridges. If you want add to the bill amps, speakers, etc... this isn't fair.
It may seem unbelieveble but PU7 was a gift as well.

Bye Bye,
Paul

[Cymbiosis Expert Linn Retailer]

(2012-04-13 12:47)Elbow Wrote:  So Peter, if I ever had need to ship my LP12, would you advise removing the Keel first and shipping that separately?

Elbow, I'll try and answer and expand a bit on the issue for you guys to consider if I may:

How would it be shipped and by whom?

The issue is preventing the Keel coming into contact with the top-plate and plinth. Also if packing material is in contact with the Keel's top surface and can move, even a little, then vibration could/would cause polishing and/or more serious abrasion of the surface finish.

The amount of additional packaging and restraint would also have to reflect the severity of handling the deck was likely to endure during it's journey. Basically, how are the shipping company you select going to treat the box? Are they going to respect fragile and/or this way up stickers or not?

It's not Impossible to transport LP12s very long distances without problem, as Warren in Australia has detailed here in the past, and I do have other examples where customers have shipped their decks to many other parts of the world without any problems at all.

So, in answer to your question, provided you are happy with the shipper's care and attention. This means they will carefully carry it, not throw it, and it won't endure being upside down, or on it's side and you take great care in adding in extra necessary packaging and removing arm tops, or counterweights etc ensuring there is sufficient space for a the arm beneath the lid packaging as if it is a Linn arm the packaging will need modification for bearing and headshell finger-lift clearance for sure!!! That's all additional to removal of the sub-platter, sleeving the spindle and the red bearing cap for the main bearing etc. Then, as a last resort, when you literally have no other choice in the matter............

Obviously, if you are shipping in the back of your car or it's in your care during a journey on a plane - As a carry on for example (you'd need to ditch the outer box for a carry on BTW) Then with care, you are unlikely to have a problem (again provided it's well set up (as I'm sure it is) and no lube has been applied to the spring bushes (as if they have - they will move and the deck will go out of tune in transit) - So, quite a few caveats for you...

But for the factory, where they need to pack the deck promptly, when sending out to the retailer network, there is no way they could ship without damage occuring to the wonderful finish on the Keel currently. It would neeed a significant and costly re-design of the packaging IMHO - So would it be worth it? Who would pay for the new revised packaging?

My guess is that the costs of any new packaging would have to be spread across all new LP12s, so most of the decks supplied, which is with a steel subchassis of course would have to increase in price to those customers in order to chip in for packaging they really don't require! Not really very fair.

So, dealers just crediting for un-used steel sub-chassis is the common sense approach IMHO as I stated before.

Hope that covers everything for you.

KR

Peter