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DS disappointed
2011-12-04, 20:52
Post: #21
RE: DS disappointed
I can see the point of the thread starter... for older computer illiterate people, it's indeed not the same as popping a cd into a player....
Problem is that the standards for networking are usually complex issues.
I've been using computers since i was 15, from commodore 64's to amiga's to pc's to mac's and sometimes i am at a loss why a pc or other computer simply doesn't want to see other network machines....
But... that's not Linn's fault.. tcp/ip and networking stuff in general is far too complex and difficult to set up for the average user....
I've had to help a lot of friends and neighbours to set up a network cause out of the box... it rarely works!

Linn Renew DS - Trinnov Amethyst - 2*Ayre MX-R - B&W 802D - Nordost Valhalla
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2011-12-04, 20:57
Post: #22
RE: DS disappointed
I hate people that do this to threads, but...to the OP, should it not be 'To be a rock and not to roll' or do I have the reference wrong or has this been covered before?
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2011-12-04, 21:20
Post: #23
RE: DS disappointed
I think it's all very well to talk about dealer support but there must be a lot of people in my situation who are third party buyers of Renews.I have had my Renew for more than two months now and it was only last week I managed to get any sound out of it thanks to help from the Forum,still working out how to add Netgear Nas to my Mac based system.Currently listening to Linn radio which is excellent.
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2011-12-04, 21:24 (This post was last modified: 2011-12-04 21:26 by mickc.)
Post: #24
RE: DS disappointed
(2011-12-04 20:57)Brown Wrote:  I hate people that do this to threads, but...to the OP, should it not be 'To be a rock and not to roll' or do I have the reference wrong or has this been covered before?

It has! He mentioned it in the thread about usernames and the incorrect quote is deliberate...

Quote - Try and failing to be a bit clever with a Led Zep lyric

For those who are into other genres of music ( other than Classic Rock ) that Lyric is from a song called Stairway to Heaven " to be a rock and not to roll"

Source 1:- LP12SE - Akiva
Source 2:- KDS/1-iPad Air-Kinsky-Asset
System:- KK/1/D-KCT/D-Espeks
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2011-12-04, 21:25 (This post was last modified: 2011-12-04 21:31 by Briain.)
Post: #25
RE: DS disappointed
Hi

I think that one of the problems folks will have with networks is that whilst there is a lot of easily accessable information on how to set up a very basic 'home' network, in some ways, that's also the level at which the easily accessable knowledge base ends. By that, what I mean is that the next level of understanding is not easily achieved by reading a couple more pages (if they were even available) and the only way to progress beyond the very basic stuff is to take a pretty full-on plunge into the subject; there is no 'intermediate level' pamflet (well, not that I've seen). It's a sort of chicken and egg scenario as you'd have to know a lot more about what it does in order to even know what to search the www for when something exotic does go wrong. I do feel sorry for the Linn dealers' as it must have been a steep (and very frustrating) learning curve for some of them to move from HiFi products to network people.

Fortunately, that level of knowledge isn't actually required for things like domestic networks, DS and control points, but you do have to have the network fundamentals correct, and from the networks I've had to sort, it's always either bad basic configuration (IP conflicts etc), poor equipment (some ISP provided devices) or badly sited wireless (that's a very, very common one) that are responsible for all these frustrating issues folks have, amd these are areas where the Linn dealer should be able to help. Most of the network stuff I do is not Linn DS related, but the problems (and reasons for them) are just the same.

Of course, the worry for me (and thus also the Linn dealers) is that as soon as you start fiddling with someone's network, you take ownership of any problems that they have (and that could include some that were there before you even walked through their front door). I think that's the main reason Linn advocate the second router setup; it means there is a clear boundary between what the dealer is responsible for and what the customer has already.

Bri
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2011-12-04, 21:27
Post: #26
RE: DS disappointed
Imagine how much trouble there'd be if Linn DS's had wifi too...

Source 1:- LP12SE - Akiva
Source 2:- KDS/1-iPad Air-Kinsky-Asset
System:- KK/1/D-KCT/D-Espeks
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2011-12-04, 21:27
Post: #27
DS disappointed
I can sympathise with the O/P and I think "afewbeers" has a point as well in that a DS system has a lot of components not supplied by Linn as a system.

One of he reasons why Apple and even Sonus are successful is because they have control over all aspects of the systems they sell. Linn do not and that is IMO a big factor in the problems people face. It is OK to say the dealer should sort out a system but not all dealers are equal.

I myself write high availability software for a living and I build my own PC's so there is not a lot that phases me when it comes to technology but the past year of DS ownership has been a frustrating one partly because knowing what I do it's been an eye opener to see how flaky some bits of non-linn kit are.

In theory it should be possible to run a media server on a PC connected a Router and connect that to a DS via homeplugs and off you go. That was my first attempt at a very basic system and it never worked with drop outs the problem.

Next an Ethernet switch and NAS was added so the DS and media server didn't have to communicate over the home plug network. That fixed the drop outs but then the control points kept losing site of the DS , the NAS or both and it was hit and miss if on firing them up if I got a music system I could use.

Finally I picked up a Netgear WGR 614 router and use that as the switch on a subnet leaving the ISP router not doing wireless (because it's clearly rubbish at it) and just leaving it to giving access to the Internet.

Now I am sure where I ended up configuration-wise is where I should have been at the start but the thing is there is in theory no reason why my original basic configuration should not have worked. As an it person myself maybe I am used to hardware and software that works because if it didn't you would know about it.

It's taken nearly a year to get the system working in a trouble free way and I don't think that is a good advert for the system as a whole as something for a non-techy to invest in as a music system.

I think Linn could improve matters a lot by keeping on top of a list of hardware proven to work (and hardware that does not) such as routers because as I see it most documentation is out of date and mentions models that are no longer made. I had quite a time tracking down the Netgear WGR 614 for example which I did because it is known to work. The "dealer will set you up" concept which puts the onus on them is not good enough in my opinion.
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2011-12-04, 21:39
Post: #28
RE: DS disappointed
Hi, since I started this whole debate, I thought I'd chip back in....
I reread my original post just to make sure I hadn't made a mistake and I hadn't, I said DS was disappointing, never said my Renew was disappointing, my point was the 'package' had let me down, albeit for a couple of hours ;-)
And on reflection on my 2nd post, when I was back on, my point was in some respects the kit wasn't the issue ( and before you think user error ) my error was not insisting a fuller handover.
But you don't know, what you don't know, if you know what I mean ;-)

I think the people who say it's never me down, I suspect they may have had my issues, but they knew in 1st instance how to do the diagnostics ie look in Konfig and see the DS had disappeared, then knew it was reboot job, which is exactly what I did.
One man's no problem, is another man flippin disaster..... Trust me I was desperate to hear those sweet sounds again.....

LP12, Renew, KK in Black, Tunebox full of cards, LK140 X3, Klout on the Mid, Keltiks, lots of Silver Linn Cables, thick grey expensive cable under the floor boards AKA K600.
And a lot of Dummies books on IPads, Home networks and Windows 8
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2011-12-04, 22:59 (This post was last modified: 2011-12-04 23:16 by DonEscoba.)
Post: #29
RE: DS disappointed
When there are problems with a DS setup both parties might be to blame: dealer and customer.

Some dealers might cash in the extra margin and provide little help for it.

Some customers might deliberately turn down good advice from the dealer because they adamantly insist on using a certain kind of el-cheapo NAS, hand held device etc.

IMO dealers should assess their customers and, if they don't seem up to the task of setting up the DS on their own, they should offer them a complete package consisting of preconfigured DS, NAS, iPod and apps, perhaps even ethernet cables and/or two Airport Express (or similar). It's asking a lot from a dealer that he/she should should know and configure every conceivable type of home computer hardware that the customer might present to them. Customers would be well advised to accept such an offer.

And then there's backup. But that is another story ...
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2011-12-04, 23:23 (This post was last modified: 2011-12-04 23:27 by Briain.)
Post: #30
RE: DS disappointed
(2011-12-04 22:59)DonEscoba Wrote:  And then there's backup. But that is another story ...

But (IMHO) it's actually the most important story of all!

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