Oh dear, time for contoversy again

[grimreaper46]

I have just expanded my system with a Majik 2100 to drive the Bass units of the Isobariks and leave the Majik DSI just to perform as a Streamer/Pre-Amp.

My dealer brought along an Akurate DS when he installed the 2100 (and moved the Aktiv cards).

We first tried the ADS as an input to the MDSI. We played a wide selection of music in this format. Then changed to having the ADS straight into the Amps.

Differences? Well in configuration 1, I could not detect any benefit. In configuration 2, perhaps a very slight tightening up the bass. But hardly noticable.

I found more change when previously I had changed the Interconnects from Black to Silver.

Now in one way I am happy. Saved a lot of money, so I can buy loads more music. Other than that, maybe age and hearing limitations are catching up on me and I should seek out the aural version of specsavers.

So maybe the "Source First" philosophy is correct but full benefit would only be apparent on an upgrade that included Akurate Power amps (and maybe speakers).

Now my dealer did say he had not heard a Majik system sounding any better than mine and in the best Linn tradition he let my ears choose what I felt best for me. So whilst I understand that others experience may be different I am truly happy and satisfied where I am. Now if I win the lottery..........

[ernfisch]

(2012-03-20 21:00)grimreaper46 Wrote:  I have just expanded my system with a Majik 2100 to drive the Bass units of the Isobariks and leave the Majik DSI just to perform as a Streamer/Pre-Amp.

My dealer brought along an Akurate DS when he installed the 2100 (and moved the Aktiv cards).

We first tried the ADS as an input to the MDSI. We played a wide selection of music in this format. Then changed to having the ADS straight into the Amps.

Differences? Well in configuration 1, I could not detect any benefit. In configuration 2, perhaps a very slight tightening up the bass. But hardly noticable.

I found more change when previously I had changed the Interconnects from Black to Silver.

Now in one way I am happy. Saved a lot of money, so I can buy loads more music. Other than that, maybe age and hearing limitations are catching up on me and I should seek out the aural version of specsavers.

So maybe the "Source First" philosophy is correct but full benefit would only be apparent on an upgrade that included Akurate Power amps (and maybe speakers).

Now my dealer did say he had not heard a Majik system sounding any better than mine and in the best Linn tradition he let my ears choose what I felt best for me. So whilst I understand that others experience may be different I am truly happy and satisfied where I am. Now if I win the lottery..........

I have just completed a similar test. Set up with the ADS playing into the MDSI. When switching between DSs I could not detect any real difference. It was also suggested that I might need to visit an audiologist. Later I just sat back and listened to the ADS for an extended period. The difference was so obvious even I couldn't miss it.

The bottom line is that I traded in the MDSI and the active 109s (my pusher had come into possession of a pair of mint 242s) so I now have an ADSM and active 242s. The sound is glorious.

[linnrd]

From my sordid past experience here's a couple of points to ponder. When equipment along the lineup is voiced/designed to sound similar, the differences can be rather subtle. In the quest for amplification, I heard a Rotel RMB-1095/1080 -- it sounded good; then we switched the amp for Classe CA-2200/5200 and it definitely sounded better. Was it 4 times better? Not really. Hard to justify. Then for shiggles and gits, we swapped out for CA-M400 monoblocks -- sounded amazing. Worth twice the cost of the other Classe? Hmm. Guess the Rotel was to be my destiny. After about 20-30 min of listening to some lovely tunes from my collection, thought it would be nice to listen to the 5200 again before wrapping the Rotel up. Umm...right. As soon as the amps were swapped out, the Minister of Finance turned to me and said..."We're screwed, aren't we?" Turns out the Rotel was in my destiny after all -- it powers the rear end (so to speak).

I find that it is easier to discern differences when one listens to the "better" gear first and relaxes and THEN swaps out the gear for the "lesser" stuff. The loss of the details that make up the whole is startlingly clear, whereas the inclusion of those to the whole is not so in many cases.** This might be somewhat antithetic to the Tune-dem method, but it has never failed me in picking out gear that I am happy to live with.

**What I should clarify is that the "better" gear doesn't add details, but rather just detracts less from the performance than the "lesser" stuff. And it is the detractions that we (or rather I) are (am) more sensitive to, and not their lack thereof.

[grimreaper46]

For me the difference in my system was in no way worth £4,500 (and probably £5,600 as I would have gone for a ADSM) compared to the MDSI at £2,600.

As I said I am sure others my find the difference significant. I didn't and listening for longer periods is immaterial. My wallet says if I don't go, "Wow that is great" I am not investing that ammount of money. Remember according to Ivor, a tune dem will show up significant differences in seconds.

But there you go. You have to make the decision yourself. I have made mine. I am sure Linn would support that wholeheartedly.

[Warren]

(2012-03-20 21:00)grimreaper46 Wrote:  I found more change when previously I had changed the Interconnects from Black to Silver.

Good to hear your system is well setup and your dealer is impressed with it.

We hear a bigger difference in sources when the backend is more revealing, so I suspect you might have heard a bigger difference if you'd moved to silvers first.

I learned this from a friend who was so good he ended up working for a Linn dealer.

That dealership also taught me a valuable technique I've used until today.

Not just AB, which highlights the differences one way. It is better to do ABA. The philosophy being the brain tends to notice additions rather than omissions.

I'm wondering how long you've had your Majik system. For reasons discussed in my The most important graph in Hi-Fi post.

[stunta]

No controversy here. It is a _fact_ that ADS is not better than MDS

Seriously though, I dont think the downstream equipment is the reason here. In my Majik system which I would think is lower end than yours, the difference between MDS and RDS was huge.

[James MacMillan]

(2012-03-20 21:00)grimreaper46 Wrote:  I have just expanded my system with a Majik 2100 to drive the Bass units of the Isobariks and leave the Majik DSI just to perform as a Streamer/Pre-Amp.

My dealer brought along an Akurate DS when he installed the 2100 (and moved the Aktiv cards).

We first tried the ADS as an input to the MDSI. We played a wide selection of music in this format. Then changed to having the ADS straight into the Amps.

Differences? Well in configuration 1, I could not detect any benefit. In configuration 2, perhaps a very slight tightening up the bass. But hardly noticable.

I found more change when previously I had changed the Interconnects from Black to Silver.

Now in one way I am happy. Saved a lot of money, so I can buy loads more music. Other than that, maybe age and hearing limitations are catching up on me and I should seek out the aural version of specsavers.

So maybe the "Source First" philosophy is correct but full benefit would only be apparent on an upgrade that included Akurate Power amps (and maybe speakers).

Now my dealer did say he had not heard a Majik system sounding any better than mine and in the best Linn tradition he let my ears choose what I felt best for me. So whilst I understand that others experience may be different I am truly happy and satisfied where I am. Now if I win the lottery..........

---

(2012-03-21 08:20)James MacMillan Wrote:  

(2012-03-20 21:00)grimreaper46 Wrote:  I have just expanded my system with a Majik 2100 to drive the Bass units of the Isobariks and leave the Majik DSI just to perform as a Streamer/Pre-Amp.

My dealer brought along an Akurate DS when he installed the 2100 (and moved the Aktiv cards).

We first tried the ADS as an input to the MDSI. We played a wide selection of music in this format. Then changed to having the ADS straight into the Amps.

Differences? Well in configuration 1, I could not detect any benefit. In configuration 2, perhaps a very slight tightening up the bass. But hardly noticable.

I found more change when previously I had changed the Interconnects from Black to Silver

Now in one way I am happy. Saved a lot of money, so I can buy loads more music. Other than that, maybe age and hearing limitations are catching up on me and I should seek out the aural version of specsavers.

So maybe the "Source First" philosophy is correct but full benefit would only be apparent on an upgrade that included Akurate Power amps (and maybe speakers).

Now my dealer did say he had not heard a Majik system sounding any better than mine and in the best Linn tradition he let my ears choose what I felt best for me. So whilst I understand that others experience may be different I am truly happy and satisfied where I am. Now if I win the lottery..........

Just remember, your ears are the constant. If you can't hear the difference the difference doesn't exist.

I still dare you to try the Renew and better pre-amp.

[grimreaper46]

Just to clear up one point, I did have silvers fitted, from MDSI to 2100 and then to the 6100 or directly from the ADS to the 2100 and on to the 6100. My point was that when I had previously changed from the blacks to silvers I noticed more than with the ADS in the system.

I had the same when I tried out a Renew.

Maybe it is just that the Majik System is more than the sum of it's parts and just doesn't pass the whole benefit of a change in front end through the system.

I am sure (I think ) that a complete Akurate System would be a considerable improvement but way beyond my pocket. However having added the 2100 gives me more flexibility for future enhancements (within budget or subject to the Lottery) and allows the Majik DSI's Streamer/Preamp to work at it's best now the power amps are switched off.

The final point I would like to make is that I had no history of the Akurate DS used. I presume it was his demo one from the shop. But my system (excluding the 2100) has been up and running for over 12 months. Maybe the ADS may have improved over time. I have no way of knowing and hence could only make judgement on what I heard.

So must go now and listen to some music.