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In Europe, Where Art Is Life, Ax Falls on Public Financing
2012-03-26, 18:45
Post: #1
In Europe, Where Art Is Life, Ax Falls on Public Financing
Greetings all,

An article on The New York Times website which might be of interest to you:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/world/...wanted=all

Regards,

Mister Wednesday
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2012-03-26, 19:16
Post: #2
RE: In Europe, Where Art Is Life, Ax Falls on Public Financing
Heh,
You better visit Europe before it doesnt exist anymoreWink. Ahh a Rome trip has to come soonSmile


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2012-03-27, 11:03
Post: #3
RE: In Europe, Where Art Is Life, Ax Falls on Public Financing
Quite right too !

I can never understand why a Goverment would spend so much money on something that no one really wants to see....
I'm not saying let market forces completely dictate, but when was the last time you went to Goverment sponsored Rock Concert - Never !
What is good for Rock Music is good for Classical music, Opera and Art,

The arts need to feel the cold wind of reality in our economy.

Perhaps they could sell all those large black rimmed glasses to support their next event Wink

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2012-03-27, 11:07
Post: #4
RE: In Europe, Where Art Is Life, Ax Falls on Public Financing
"Germany and France, the largest and most stable economies in Europe"

Germany yes. France??????
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2012-03-27, 13:19
Post: #5
RE: In Europe, Where Art Is Life, Ax Falls on Public Financing
(2012-03-27 11:03)To be a Rock and not a Roll Wrote:  I'm not saying let market forces completely dictate, but when was the last time you went to Goverment sponsored Rock Concert - Never !

That's because rock concerts don't need subsidy. If they did, they'd (hopefully) get it.

(2012-03-27 11:03)To be a Rock and not a Roll Wrote:  The arts need to feel the cold wind of reality in our economy.

Believe me, they are. When there's any kind of squeeze on public money, which there almost always is, the arts are the first thing that goes. It's easy political point-scoring to say you're reducing subsidy to something "pointless" that "rich people" go to, like opera, but the arts are so much broader than that. Things like community theatre, local galleries, scholarships for promising young artists, arts centres in the middle of nowhere, public sculpture and a whole heap more all suffer. You don't want to live in a world without art!

No one subsidises my art, and at the moment, people aren't buying. It's as hard for the commercial galleries, theatres and artists as it is for the public ones.

Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.
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2012-03-27, 19:26 (This post was last modified: 2012-03-27 19:27 by mrco99.)
Post: #6
RE: In Europe, Where Art Is Life, Ax Falls on Public Financing
Art defines our human being, our state of civilization.
Off course one can criticize the necessity to subsidize opera while
workers are becoming unemployed because of the economic crises.
But have a look at the bigger picture.
When DaVinci painted Mona Lisa people were also dying of poverty.
And you don't have necessarily have to be an art student to be moved by music, dance or a painting.

Craftmenship is hardly recognized anymore as a working business, if we can have it produced in China we'll take it there for more profit on the short run.
For the sake of trade we lose our own production capabilities.

If we look at where we come from as human beings we always look at things that we consider now as 'art objects'. But it's our common denominator and what binds us as people, not even our different languages can separate that.
I can be moved by an Italian piece of music, not even knowing the words, but just by the transferred emotion (though my Linn hifi that is...Wink).

So art is essential. And the reason why art always has been taxed with 6% (the rate for daily needs like food) instead of 19% (luxury goods).
What is happening in Holland is appalling. Our current minister of Arts even admitted he had no special interest or expertise in this field. But he was certain to make his ministry 'healthy' again.
Orchestras that have existed for decades are being dismantled without given a chance to look for alternatives. And once dissapeared, you can't just put it back in[/align] a couple of years, when this short-visioned goverment has made place for the next one. Again the credo is revenue. Those that are being subsidized have to pay back in measurable means. Cash. Not emotion or joy.

Maybe we have to change something about the way we've organized our economies.
We're only money orientated, built on growth and increasing consumption (even in the art sector).
More goodies for less money, civilization is running downhill...
Sorry for this un-happy end.

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2012-03-28, 05:46
Post: #7
RE: In Europe, Where Art Is Life, Ax Falls on Public Financing
(2012-03-27 19:26)mrco99 Wrote:  What is happening in Holland is appalling. Our current minister of Arts even admitted he had no special interest or expertise in this field. But he was certain to make his ministry 'healthy' again.
Orchestras that have existed for decades are being dismantled without given a chance to look for alternatives. And once dissapeared, you can't just put it back in[/align] a couple of years, when this short-visioned goverment has made place for the next one. Again the credo is revenue.
Ah...we are ahead of you then. What is happening here is interesting. Our current minister of Advanced Education has no special interest or expertise in the field, wants to make the ministry "healthy" and, as a result, is underfunding colleges which have to then close programs without providing alternatives for people in the province. We killed Art a long time ago. We've wounded Health somewhat seriously. We've now got education in the gunsights. So....let's see....without Art we have War, without Health we have Pestilence, and without Education we will have famine. That takes care of three out of the Four Horsemen who are out an about.Tongue The other guy must be feeling rather lonely at the moment in this region.Rolleyes

Mrco99, don't apologise for the unhappy end...bemoan instead the unhappy beginning.

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2012-03-28, 22:08
Post: #8
RE: In Europe, Where Art Is Life, Ax Falls on Public Financing
I don't get the argument I wouldn't want to live in world without art, as it applies to things I never ever look at or see, but some how am expected to pay for !
Hmm....
Actually not a problem for me, the art I support is commercially viable, if there was never another piece of opera performed or messy bed presented as modern art then no problem, let it go....

For those who believe it really enriches their lives, they have a choice, you can pay for it or the performers move to a more appropriate level at which to make commercial arrangements.

I'm not anti art, I don't believe we should spend taxes on the arts, all forms of art should set your stall out relevant to your ability to cover your costs.

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2012-03-28, 23:39
Post: #9
RE: In Europe, Where Art Is Life, Ax Falls on Public Financing
It does enrich your life. If you visit public galleries, look at public sculpture, or watch any of the hundreds of films each year that wouldn't be made without public funding, then it does so directly.

If you don't do any of those things, then I'm sure that many of the musicians you enjoy listening to had their art influenced and informed by publicly supported work. Next time you take out a record, look at the sleeve and think how many public galleries that painter or photographer must have been to. Maybe without grants and subsidies they couldn't have made that piece. Next time you read a book think how many hours the author might have spent in public libraries writing or researching.

Opera, well I see that a little bit like a protected species. Swans don't directly benefit my life either, but I wouldn't want them to disappear for the sake of a few quid here and there. Both bring a bit of class and beauty to a world too full of ugliness.

It's not art's job to be commercial, it's art's job to rub people up the wrong way, to try to make you see something in a way you've never seen before. Yes, the cutting edge needs help, but that cutting edge is where the new ideas come from, and everything, whatever your taste, was a new idea once. A large chunk of public money goes to the young and inexperienced - tomorrow's painters, actors, directors and musicians.

So, in short, whether you realize it or not, that part of your tax money which ends up in the arts benefits all of us, you included. If you don't feel you're getting your money's worth, go to more galleries, more libraries, more recitals, more plays, and watch more independent films. They're great, and you've already paid for them!

Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.
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2012-03-29, 06:14
Post: #10
RE: In Europe, Where Art Is Life, Ax Falls on Public Financing
The interesting comments by slackboy and TBARAR bring to mind an issue I recently came across over freedom of expression. Of course, the person was a bit upset that the expression didn't quite meet his expectation. And that is kind of similar to art. One doesn't have to understand (or misunderstand) it in order to align oneself with it.

At the same time if we limit art to the commercially viable, I personally am a wee bit afraid of a future full of cat videos. A similar argument is made for research in that it should be commercially viable, but it is only out of the crucible of public funded research that the commercially viable products we live with came about. And so it is with art and culture. Much like supporting free speech demands that will defend another's right to oppose one's view, I think I would defend the funding of art I may not appreciate.

In many ways, Dadaism makes this point rather well. And while one may not appreciate (or sometimes even understand) Dadaist art, if it weren't for that, the Avant Garde movement mightn't have occurred (oh, there goes Phillip Glass and John Cale) nor would we have surrealism (hmm...Dali is out along with prints of Persistence of Memory that adorned dorm rooms) and pop art may not have been (Warhol, Lou Reed, and VU). A lot of what we may now enjoy (and what I do enjoy) came about as a direct influence of Dadaism, although Dadaism (the progenitor) is something that escapes me. Therefore if publicly funding something I just don't get leads to the birth of what I do enjoy, I am still benificient of it.

And to add to slack's quote:
(2012-03-28 23:39)slackboy Wrote:  It's not art's job to be commercial, it's art's job to rub people up the wrong way, to try to make you see something in a way you've never seen before.
I think even that may be overstating the case. Art's job is merely to be art...and if it truly is art, it will give birth to more art.

So if something publicly funded that I don't enjoy today may lead to something I (or anyone else) may relish tomorrow, that alone should provide us a reason to not stifle it for lack of interest. Art truly is one of the few things that differentiates us from the other apes, and we should perhaps strive to remain differentiated.

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