Akurate amp questions

[rumnyc]

My current system is a MDSM->B&W N804.

I recently bought an A2200 used that is sitting in its box waiting to be plugged in.

Question 1: How should I use the A2200 in my current setup.
a) turn off the amp in the MDSM (In Konfig there is an option to disable the internal amp) and use the A2200 to drive the N804 passively.

b) Passive bi-amp the N804 with the A2200 diving the woofers and MDSM amps driving the mid/tweeter.

c) Passive bi-amp the N804 with the MDSM diving the woofers and A2200 amps driving the mid/tweeter.

I will play with all the above, but just want some advice on what to expect.

My ultimate goal is to get ADSM->Klimax Twin-> A242. with the summer promo on the amps, I am tempted to get a A4200 for the price of a A2200 (upgraditis). Originally planning to get the A242 in about 6 months which is why I bought the A2200 as I head the MDSM amps are grossly inadequate for A242. Keep in mind that I never intend to go fully aktiv on the A242. I would rather go Kimax CT before fully aktiv. My A2200 is the latest spec chassis with the silver feet and dynamik from factory. After I sell the A2200 (to fund the A4200), the upgrade will cost me about GBP2000 with is GBP 2000 that I will have to save for the A242 and set me back another 3-6 months from getting the A242.

Question 2: Considering I will not be going fully Aktiv, is passive bi-amping using A4200 a worthy upgrade from an A2200 for the A242 or should i just get the A242 sooner?

After I get the A2200 I will get the ADSM in another 6 months and the KCT probably a year after the A242.

I am almost afraid to ask my dealer to setup a 242 with an MDSM, an A2200 and a A4200 (passive biamp) because I have a feeling I will end up buying something which would only delay the A242!!!

Opinions/suggestions welcome...

[linnrd]

(2012-07-03 02:53)rumnyc Wrote:  Question 1: How should I use the A2200 in my current setup.
a) turn off the amp in the MDSM (In Konfig there is an option to disable the internal amp) and use the A2200 to drive the N804 passively.

b) Passive bi-amp the N804 with the A2200 diving the woofers and MDSM amps driving the mid/tweeter.

c) Passive bi-amp the N804 with the MDSM diving the woofers and A2200 amps driving the mid/tweeter.

I will play with all the above, but just want some advice on what to expect.

A couple of observations that may (or may not) be of use.

b) is the option that will give you the best results on the 804s. There is a grossly arduous phase angle and impedance in the upper mid-bass that makes these hard to drive and the 2200 is probably going to have a better chance than the M-DSM doing so. You will likely get more dynamics and cleaner sound as well because the crossover design is suited for bi-amping.

Unless one wishes to keep using money at every rung on the upgrade ladder, it is better to set one's sight on the end goal and get there directly. At present it would be wise to stash away for a KCT and then use that to drive the 804s or wait until the new Akurate speaker is revealed likely sometime in the fall. If you do want to do the incremental upgrades, then sticking to pre-loved gear is probably going to result in the least fiscal outlay along the path. Also do not forget the option of an R-DS into an AK as your front end if you really want to hear what the 242s can do; you will be able to discern this even on the 804s.

[rumnyc]

Thanks for the suggestion linnrd.

Regarding RDS, it will never pass the WAF (wife approval factor) for two reasons. It means I need to get something to handle my HDMI gear (PS3/Cablebox etc.) so RDS means another processor/PRE and the RDS itself is in a non-matching black/silver gear.

Hence my ultimate goals is KDSM+KCT+whatever new akurate speaker comes out in 6-9 months else A242. Infact, even the color of the speaker needs to be walnut per my wife to match the shelf!!!

The MDSM+N804 will move to my second home. I may sell the A2200 eventually and not loose too much money as I bought it used but the KCT is probably 2 years away so it will get two years of good use.

I am now leaning towards forgetting the A4200 and just enjoying passive bi-amping for now. Infact, I will use the MDSM for another two months to get used to its amp so I can hear an upgrade when I add the A2200 One may question why I got the A2200 now but I saw one at a good price and in too good of a condition (single owner, less than one year old, new style chassis, and looked practically new at near 60pc of new price and warranty xfered to my name). Happy to keep it boxed up until I am itching for an upgrade. My MDSM just came 3 days ago so I am just enjoying it now.

[Rufus McDufus]

RDS is very small & discreet. Stick a bit of tape on the front to hide the blue light and she might not notice?

[rumnyc]

(2012-07-03 11:08)Rufus McDufus Wrote:  RDS is very small & discreet. Stick a bit of tape on the front to hide the blue light and she might not notice?

RDS might be discrete, but I will need something for HDMI switching for my other stuff that will probably not be so discrete!

[Briain]

Hi

I've just been testing a similar concept when using an MDS-I and 2250/D. I've had it set with the MDS-I's amp disabled and the 2250/D feeding my 212 speakers with two lengths of K20; one to the bass unit and the other to the 3K Array (mid, treble and super-tweeter) for many months, so I know very well how it all sounds.

Yesterday, I tried enabling the MDS-I internal amp and using it to feed the supatweet unit. My reasoning was that as it is the least power consuming unit, it will have least effect on the MDS-I's internal supply (and thus least chance of impacting on the sound of the MDS-I's other stages; kinda makes some sense when you ponder it). It was okay, but I'm not sure I preferred it to the single 2250/D; it was maybe a little more 'open' sounding, but I wasn't totally happy with it.

I then tried connecting the MDS-I to the mid range unit on the 3K Array, and right away, you could easily hear the benefit of having that unit electrically separated from the rest of the 3K Array and driven by its own amplifier (though which made the greatest impact is unknown). It actually sounded slightly more like my active system (just the job) but whilst it was great in most ways, I suspect that it was all a little less musical than when using the single amp.

So my conclusion (which could be wrong) is that bi-amping my 212's would be well, well worth the effort (and I'm pretty sure I'd dedicate an amp for the mid range unit alone) but that using the MDS-I's internal amp for one of the bi-amp solutions might be degrading the sound of the MDS-I (compared to using the MDS-I as a source only device); that's the bit that I can't easily test at the moment. I'll have to obtain some more K20 and leave it with the MDS-I driving the mid range unit for some time to judge it properly (for these tests, I had to use a short piece of K20 cable stretched like a tight-rope over my kitchen door, so I couldn't leave it like that for very long) then revert to using the 2250/D on its own.

Update: I've just procured some more cable, so I'm pulling it under the floor now, and I will test using the MDSI as a mid amp (over a few days) to see what I think about it.

I'm not familiar with your speakers, but assuming they are three unit devices, I'd suggest the test you want to try is to use the 2200 to feed the bass unit and mid unit (bi-wired) then try the MDSM feeding the tweeter alone. See if that's better or worse than you are used to, then try using the MDSM's amp for the mid range, and use the 2200 to feed the bass and tweeter (bi-wired).

It's hard to say which of the above would be best; solution one could be best as the tweeter currents might have least impact on the MDSM. Solution two might be better as your ears are most sensitive to mid range improvements (but the impact on the rest of the MDSM might be higher). Again, I haven't tested it long enough to draw a meaningful conclusion. Either way, please let us know what you find as I'd be really very interested to hear from someone who has performed a similar test to the ones I've just performed.

Bri

PS I'll guess that in my case, I should consider saving up my pennies (and flogging off some other stuff) and looking for something like a 4200.

[Briain]

Hi

Well I'm not sure about using a MDSM and 2200, but I've just put in some less precarious wiring to try all this with my MDSI and 2250 over the longer term. I tried what I at first though was best (as discussed in my above post) which was using the 2250 to feed bass, tweeter and super-tweeter with the MDSI feeding the mid range units, but it just didn't sound right. I've now got it with the 2250 feeding bass, mid, treble and with the MDSI feeding just the super-tweeters. This does seem pretty good, but there's still something odd about it all. I'm starting to wonder if using the MDSI's power amp deteriorats the sound of the MDSI, but at least the fact that it's only driving the super-tweeters means its impact is minimised; has anyone else experimented with such things?

Bri

[berni]

(2012-07-03 21:04)Briain Wrote:  Hi

Well I'm not sure about using a MDSM and 2200, but I've just put in some less precarious wiring to try all this with my MDSI and 2250 over the longer term. I tried what I at first though was best (as discussed in my above post) which was using the 2250 to feed bass, tweeter and super-tweeter with the MDSI feeding the mid range units, but it just didn't sound right. I've now got it with the 2250 feeding bass, mid, treble and with the MDSI feeding just the super-tweeters. This does seem pretty good, but there's still something odd about it all. I'm starting to wonder if using the MDSI's power amp deteriorats the sound of the MDSI, but at least the fact that it's only driving the super-tweeters means its impact is minimised; has anyone else experimented with such things?

Bri

Hi Bri,

I guess my case may be too far off from what you are doing there (no Akurate amps involved), but I'll post it anyway...

I recently activated my MDSi and M140 with a 6100, using the MDSi amp for super-tweeter. I also use a Majik-ish LP12 as a source with the MDSi. What struck me is that the effect of the new active setup is *much* more dramatic with DS as source than with the LP12. With digital audio, it's really a new league now. I concluded for myself that the DS in the MDSi must have been "set free" by using the amp only for the super-tweeter. Probably even better when deactivating it completely, but I can only guess that...

Bernhard

[whizz]

(2012-07-03 21:04)Briain Wrote:  Hi

Well I'm not sure about using a MDSM and 2200, but I've just put in some less precarious wiring to try all this with my MDSI and 2250 over the longer term. I tried what I at first though was best (as discussed in my above post) which was using the 2250 to feed bass, tweeter and super-tweeter with the MDSI feeding the mid range units, but it just didn't sound right. I've now got it with the 2250 feeding bass, mid, treble and with the MDSI feeding just the super-tweeters. This does seem pretty good, but there's still something odd about it all. I'm starting to wonder if using the MDSI's power amp deteriorats the sound of the MDSI, but at least the fact that it's only driving the super-tweeters means its impact is minimised; has anyone else experimented with such things?

Bri

Briain I have never enjoyed mixing amps, I would prefer to use just MDSI or 2250, mixing them will upset the system.

[Briain]

Hi Bernhard and Hi Whizz

I think you both have good points. I think that driving the mid from the MDSI amp degraded the MDSI performance, but that driving only the super-tweeter has far less impact on the rest of the MDSI circuitry and that is why it sounds better that way round (but that's highly speculative as I've not tried driving the MDSI amp into a dummy load and comparing it off and on whilst using the MDSI as a source).

As to my reason for trying it, I know that the Chakra curcuitry particularly helps with the high frequencies and (as you know) the 2250 is a very similar to the current amps, other than the lack of the extra Chakra stages. My thinking was that since I have the MDSI amp sitting here anyway, I might as well try it for the super-tweeters, and whilst it does actually sound 'better' in that respect, I think there is something not quite right about it, so I think it might not be correct to mix Chakra and non Chakra amps.

One thing's for sure, it's an interesting experiment! My plan is to live with it like this for a week or so (so I get used to the sound) then I'll connect the supatweets back to the 2250 (and disable the MDSI amp) and see what I think about it; I reckon that's the best way to correctly assess it.

Bri