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LP12 Table Recommendations? (in the US)
2009-02-09, 04:54
Post: #1
LP12 Table Recommendations? (in the US)
I'm trying to choose between a couple of audio racks/stands (w/ the top shelf reserved for my LP12) or spending the extra to get a dedicated wall shelf...

Does anyone have any experience (good or bad?) w/ an LP12 on a Target S-230, or on a Lovan Sovereign?

Is the LP12 going to sound better on a Target VW1 shelf?
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2009-02-09, 09:38
Post: #2
RE: LP12 Table Recommendations? (in the US)
Hi,

I have used a metal stand similar to the one you show. I have also used the wall bracket as well.

What I use now is a homemade LP storage system I made out of MDF. It is about 4 foot long and a bit higher and wider than an LP sleeve. With about 350 Lp's inside I found putting my deck on top of that sounded best! Also gave me no hassle drilling into the wall or trying to level up a stand full of other hi fi.

It worked in my case but in another house I lived in with plasterboard walls and a wooden floor made up the traditional way, cannot remember what you call that type of flooring, but not a flat panel sheeted wooden type floor, the wall bracket was the one that worked.

The floor I use with the storage rack is a double skinned flat panel suspended and soundproofed floor so I suspect the type of floor makes a difference.

However I have seen a few friends with LP12's and they have them sitting on very heavy items of furnature, a sideboard or storage system similar to my storage system. Again I think the floor has a lot to do with what can and cannot be used.

Hope this helps a little.

Cheers

John

SPEAKER SYSTEM:- Well Tempered Amadeus GTAA / Dynavector XX2 MKII - P75 MK II / Linn LP12 - Ittok - Karma / Majik Pre Amp - Majik DS - Linn 2250 / Shahinian Arcs / HEADPHONE SYSTEM:- Naim Headline - AKG 701's - Beyerdynamics DT880's - Grado SR80is / ReadyNas Duo with UPS - iPad - Kinsky & Songbook
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2009-02-10, 11:56 (This post was last modified: 2009-02-10 13:36 by Rille.)
Post: #3
RE: LP12 Table Recommendations? (in the US)
JohnC Wrote:What I use now is a homemade LP storage system I made out of MDF.

My epierences with MDF are not good. The LP12 sounds sluggish and dead.

I had made better experiences with in German we call it "Limba" plywood. I hope you are able to find a translation.

Better is Multiplex made of beechwood. I had 3 cm thick board and a friendly carpenter with a CNC reduce it to 0,5 cm and left a frame. So the board is light but very robust. The surface was covered with parquetvarnish.

The best possibility to put a LP12 on a table. I had heard of is the TT from time table. I think it is worth to think about it.
http://www.timetable-hifi.de

Rille
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2009-02-10, 13:32
Post: #4
RE: LP12 Table Recommendations? (in the US)
Rille Wrote:
JohnC Wrote:What I use now is a homemade LP storage system I made out of MDF.

My epierences with MDF are not good. The LP12 sounds sluggish and dead.

I had made better experiences with in German we call it "Limba" plywood. I hope you are able to find a translation.

Better is Multiplex made of beechwood. I had 3 cm thick board and a friendly carpenter Taylor with a CNC reduce it to 0,5 cm and left a frame. So the board is light but very robust. The surface was covered with parquetvarnish.

The best possibility to put a LP12 on a table. I had heard of is the TT from time table. I think it is worth to think about it.
http://www.timetable-hifi.de

Rille


Hi Rille,

Those units look really good, I might see about doing something like that.

Like the look of the valve gear, interesting speaker at the side though Tongue

Cheers

John

SPEAKER SYSTEM:- Well Tempered Amadeus GTAA / Dynavector XX2 MKII - P75 MK II / Linn LP12 - Ittok - Karma / Majik Pre Amp - Majik DS - Linn 2250 / Shahinian Arcs / HEADPHONE SYSTEM:- Naim Headline - AKG 701's - Beyerdynamics DT880's - Grado SR80is / ReadyNas Duo with UPS - iPad - Kinsky & Songbook
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2009-02-10, 14:46 (This post was last modified: 2009-02-10 14:51 by Klingsor.)
Post: #5
RE: LP12 Table Recommendations? (in the US)
Rille Wrote:The best possibility to put a LP12 on a table. I had heard of is the TT from time table. I think it is worth to think about it.
http://www.timetable-hifi.de

Rille

I auditioned the Timetable for quite some time and I beg to differ. For me it has a rather colored sound with an emphasis on the midrange. Probably at just the frequencies where the rather thin top plate resonates. This may be impressive at first in a demonstration and maybe thats why some Linn owners are in favour of this table. It features the vocal line prominently, which, of course, is at the heart of the music. But very much at the expense of timing and musical drama. It takes effort to follow how the musicians play with one another, music becomes less meaningful. You will be less inclined to discover new music with this table, because it will not unfold before you in all its complexity. Simply put the Timetable is no option for me in the long run.

Expensive special HiFi furniture is more a problem than a solution because it emphasizes some musical aspects (the ones the designer believes to be important) and neglects others. No special "HiFi" rack gets it all right. Cheap disposable IKEA furniture, lighweight with internal paper bracing structures seems to do the best job at neglegible costs.

But of course it is always best to let your own ears be the judge.
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2009-02-10, 22:46
Post: #6
RE: LP12 Table Recommendations? (in the US)
Klingsor Wrote:I auditioned the Timetable for quite some time and I beg to differ. For me it has a rather colored sound with an emphasis on the midrange. Probably at just the frequencies where the rather thin top plate resonates. This may be impressive at first in a demonstration and maybe thats why some Linn owners are in favour of this table. It features the vocal line prominently, which, of course, is at the heart of the music. But very much at the expense of timing and musical drama. It takes effort to follow how the musicians play with one another, music becomes less meaningful. You will be less inclined to discover new music with this table, because it will not unfold before you in all its complexity. Simply put the Timetable is no option for me in the long run.
I tried the TimeTable for a few weeks and my experience was very similar. In particular the part you mention about music becoming less meaningful. It did bring out more detail in the LP12, but the real test for me was when I went back to my normal table - I got my music back again! In fact, just in those few weeks I'd stopped listening to as much music.
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2009-02-10, 23:02
Post: #7
RE: LP12 Table Recommendations? (in the US)
charlie1 Wrote:
Klingsor Wrote:I auditioned the Timetable for quite some time and I beg to differ. For me it has a rather colored sound with an emphasis on the midrange. Probably at just the frequencies where the rather thin top plate resonates. This may be impressive at first in a demonstration and maybe thats why some Linn owners are in favour of this table. It features the vocal line prominently, which, of course, is at the heart of the music. But very much at the expense of timing and musical drama. It takes effort to follow how the musicians play with one another, music becomes less meaningful. You will be less inclined to discover new music with this table, because it will not unfold before you in all its complexity. Simply put the Timetable is no option for me in the long run.
I tried the TimeTable for a few weeks and my experience was very similar. In particular the part you mention about music becoming less meaningful. It did bring out more detail in the LP12, but the real test for me was when I went back to my normal table - I got my music back again! In fact, just in those few weeks I'd stopped listening to as much music.

Well said Charlie1 you consistently speak a whole lot of sense..I'm a big fan of monitoring ones listening behaviour as to what is best..I remember an old Naim advert that said 'you'll never watch telly again..' or something similar
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2009-02-11, 21:34
Post: #8
RE: LP12 Table Recommendations? (in the US)
I have tried a number of turntable platforms over the years and have found a few which work well. In my experience the better floor stands will outperform the best wall shelves but not all rooms work well with a floor stand. On some floors you will end up with the stylus bouncing out of the groove when you walk across the floor as it did in my last house. In this case the wall shelf is really the best option and the Target unit you mention is one of the best although the one I used had a composite wooden shelf rather than the glass shown in your photo. I would recommend staying away from the glass shelf.

If you are going to put the LP12 on a floor stand it is best that it be by itself with the other components on a separate rack. Unfortunately the best stands I have found for this are no longer made and quite hard to come by. The best is the Archidea but it is basically unobtanium. The AudioTech is similar and almost as good but is also difficult to find. Both are open-frame metal stands with top and bottom spikes and a thin composite wooden board sitting on the spikes for the LP12 to sit on. The original welded Sound Organisation turntable stand is also good, although not as good as the other two. The runaway recommendation for an inexpensive turntable stand is the Ikea Lack table which is cheap, reasonably attractive and has a "K" in the name! I have not tried one of these but several people I know say it works well, and if you don't like you can still use it as a table.

I'd love to get my hands on some of the other exotic turntable stands that are starting to pop up in Germany, Sweden and Japan but none are imported into the US at this point. I have had many conversations with Charlie1 and have much less interest in the Timetable since hearing his experiences with it here and on the Lejonklou forum. Considering Klingsor's similar findings and the considerable expense of the Timetable I don't have any real excitement about hearing it.

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2009-02-11, 21:56
Post: #9
RE: LP12 Table Recommendations? (in the US)
ThomasOK Wrote:I have tried a number of turntable platforms over the years and have found a few which work well. In my experience the better floor stands will outperform the best wall shelves but not all rooms work well with a floor stand. On some floors you will end up with the stylus bouncing out of the groove when you walk across the floor as it did in my last house. In this case the wall shelf is really the best option and the Target unit you mention is one of the best although the one I used had a composite wooden shelf rather than the glass shown in your photo. I would recommend staying away from the glass shelf.

If you are going to put the LP12 on a floor stand it is best that it be by itself with the other components on a separate rack. Unfortunately the best stands I have found for this are no longer made and quite hard to come by. The best is the Archidea but it is basically unobtanium. The AudioTech is similar and almost as good but is also difficult to find. Both are open-frame metal stands with top and bottom spikes and a thin composite wooden board sitting on the spikes for the LP12 to sit on. The original welded Sound Organisation turntable stand is also good, although not as good as the other two. The runaway recommendation for an inexpensive turntable stand is the Ikea Lack table which is cheap, reasonably attractive and has a "K" in the name! I have not tried one of these but several people I know say it works well, and if you don't like you can still use it as a table.

I'd love to get my hands on some of the other exotic turntable stands that are starting to pop up in Germany, Sweden and Japan but none are imported into the US at this point. I have had many conversations with Charlie1 and have much less interest in the Timetable since hearing his experiences with it here and on the Lejonklou forum. Considering Klingsor's similar findings and the considerable expense of the Timetable I don't have any real excitement about hearing it.

I can vouch for the Archidea (in the UK) allowing the LP12 to shine, but it doesn't work on a suspended wooden floor, only on a solid one. My Archidea is stored away and I'm currently using a wall mounted shelf similar to the Target. I agree with Thomas in that you should avoid a glass shelf. It's also a significant improvement if you replace the particle board with plywood as I've posted in the forum previously.

Sorry, but the Archidea is not for sale as it will be put back into use when I replace the suspended floor with a solid one.
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2009-02-20, 23:46
Post: #10
RE: LP12 Table Recommendations? (in the US)
On a similar note...

I've been using a Sound Organisation TT stand for my LP12 since I purchased it. It used to sit on a carpeted concrete floor, but is now in a room with suspended hardwood. I had no complaints prior to the move, but it seems that there is now an overall heaviness in the lower mid/upper bass range that detracts from the listening experience.

Is the key here solidity of the support? Or is it isolation? This could help me in finding a permanent solution.
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