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Kore new sub-chassi
2013-10-07, 15:51
Post: #171
RE: Kore new sub-chassi
(2013-10-07 10:34)Mikeg Wrote:  
(2013-10-07 09:56)The Flatearther Wrote:  Mike, have a look further back in the thread where Peter gives a ver short review.

A fuller review might be very useful. But Mike you should go and have a listen yourself. That's the only review that matters.
Flat

Those type of answers tend to frustrate me. I enjoyed reading the detailed reviews and comparisons of products like the keel, Radikal, Urika, Kandid etc even though I am not in a position to buy any of them. If the answer is always going to be ‘go and listen for yourself’ then I am not sure retailers would be too happy arranging dems for people who had no intention of buying.

Mike

The best time to listen to a new Linn LP12 upgrade is shortly after it comes out. At that time the dealer may have a couple demo decks setup and available for A/B comparisons. I was always willing and happy to do dems for customers regardless of their current situation. They might tell friends or purchase something in the future. If you're so lucky to have a willing and able dealer nearby, check it out and report back here!

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2013-10-07, 16:56
Post: #172
RE: Kore new sub-chassi
(2013-10-07 10:34)Mikeg Wrote:  
(2013-10-07 09:56)The Flatearther Wrote:  Mike, have a look further back in the thread where Peter gives a ver short review.

A fuller review might be very useful. But Mike you should go and have a listen yourself. That's the only review that matters.
Flat

Those type of answers tend to frustrate me. I enjoyed reading the detailed reviews and comparisons of products like the keel, Radikal, Urika, Kandid etc even though I am not in a position to buy any of them. If the answer is always going to be ‘go and listen for yourself’ then I am not sure retailers would be too happy arranging dems for people who had no intention of buying.


Mike

I find most Linn dealers are happy to do a demo even if you are not intending to buy. The real problem is listening to something that you can't afford and it makes a considerable improvement. You will then be disappointed.

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2013-10-07, 18:58
Post: #173
RE: Kore new sub-chassi
A few thoughts on the Kore and upgrading....

The problem with something like the Kore is that it's almost impossible to do a proper comparison at home without a great deal of hassle.

That's why I trust my dealer to give good advice.

This may be naive, but for me, building a good relationship with a dealer is part of the pleasure of the hifi journey that we are all exploring. I have no doubt that commercial considerations influence the advice my dealer gives me (margins, future business, etc.) but having a good relationship with a supplier makes owning something much more pleasurable IMO.

Linn have an excellent dealer network, and this is one of the many reasons why owning an LP12 is a pleasurable experience despite the hassles with setup and the costs involved as soon as you catch the upgraditis.

I recently changed my top plate to the Khan, on the basis that this would be a meaningful upgrade, without trialling the new top plate. Like many people I read the reviews of the Khan, and took the advice of my dealer who has heard hundreds of LP12s over the years. I also based my buying decision on the "common sense" approach that the stock top plate is both bent and made of material that rings like a bell. I also looked at the Rubikon, but decided that I would get more bang for the buck from the Khan. That turned out to be a wise choice I think given that Linn have now released the Kore, although I personally suspect that the Rubikon is just as good as the Kore.

I'm also not disappointed that I didn't know about the Tangerine Karmen as the cost of the Karmen is more or less double the Khan and when you get into the £1500 territory I would start looking at alternative pre-owned turntables without the acknowledged shortcomings of the LP12.

Do you agree?

Lawrence

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2013-10-07, 19:58 (This post was last modified: 2013-10-07 20:03 by John G.)
Post: #174
RE: Above post
(2013-10-07 18:58)losenotaminute Wrote:  A few thoughts on the Kore and upgrading....

The problem with something like the Kore is that it's almost impossible to do a proper comparison at home without a great deal of hassle.

That's why I trust my dealer to give good advice.

This may be naive, but for me, building a good relationship with a dealer is part of the pleasure of the hifi journey that we are all exploring. I have no doubt that commercial considerations influence the advice my dealer gives me (margins, future business, etc.) but having a good relationship with a supplier makes owning something much more pleasurable IMO.

Linn have an excellent dealer network, and this is one of the many reasons why owning an LP12 is a pleasurable experience despite the hassles with setup and the costs involved as soon as you catch the upgraditis.

I recently changed my top plate to the Khan, on the basis that this would be a meaningful upgrade, without trialling the new top plate. Like many people I read the reviews of the Khan, and took the advice of my dealer who has heard hundreds of LP12s over the years. I also based my buying decision on the "common sense" approach that the stock top plate is both bent and made of material that rings like a bell. I also looked at the Rubikon, but decided that I would get more bang for the buck from the Khan. That turned out to be a wise choice I think given that Linn have now released the Kore, although I personally suspect that the Rubikon is just as good as the Kore.

I'm also not disappointed that I didn't know about the Tangerine Karmen as the cost of the Karmen is more or less double the Khan and when you get into the £1500 territory I would start looking at alternative pre-owned turntables without the acknowledged shortcomings of the LP12.

Do you agree?

Lawrence

Well the Khan rings like a bell, as does the Keel and Kore. I believe they ring quite a bit more than the standard subchassis or top plate. Not sure that's a bad thing.

I agree and think the Karmen price point is too high to sell as well as the Khan. Time will tell.

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2013-10-07, 20:02
Post: #175
RE: Kore new sub-chassi
I think you're probably about right there Lawrence, you seem to take quite a pragmatic and realistic approach to owning an LP12. There are a broad range of owners out there with differing budgets and requirements, personally I like the fact that there are different upgrade paths available to customers and choice is generally a good thing. Cartridges are a good example, they are very much part of the player and there is a good level of choice, the access to audition prior to purchase is often quite limited though. Either way, there are some great retailers about who have impressed me with their commitment and it's fair to say that they have earned their reputations and with that reputation comes confidence from the customer.
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2013-10-07, 20:10
Post: #176
RE: Kore new sub-chassi
(2013-10-07 18:58)losenotaminute Wrote:  I recently changed my top plate to the Khan, on the basis that this would be a meaningful upgrade, without trialling the new top plate. Like many people I read the reviews of the Khan, and took the advice of my dealer who has heard hundreds of LP12s over the years. I also based my buying decision on the "common sense" approach that the stock top plate is both bent and made of material that rings like a bell.
Do you agree?
Lawrence

Lawrence,
I disagree.
The "common sense" approach is misguiding. The stock top plate has to be bent to work properly and a material that rings like a bell sounds in most cases better. I would never buy a Khan without trialling.

KR

matthias
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2013-10-07, 20:14
Post: #177
RE: Above post
(2013-10-07 19:58)John G Wrote:  Do you agree?

Well the Khan rings like a bell, as does the Keel and Kore. I believe they ring quite a bit more than the standard subchassis or top plate. Not sure that's a bad thing.

I agree and think the Karmen price point is too high to sell as well as the Khan. Time will tell.

Yes, the Khan 'rings' as any component will (or probably should) and that is quite simply a consequence of energy travelling through it. Just as the Keel does; however (and I have not measured the Keel) I imagine that it is an even decay and does not reverberate much. Having said that, the Keel is a more critical component, being very much a live part between the bearing and the arm, so probably not the best comparison. It is also worth bearing in mind what happens to the component once it's installed correctly and understanding how it interfaces with other components.
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2013-10-07, 20:24
Post: #178
RE: Kore new sub-chassi
(2013-10-07 20:10)matthias Wrote:  
(2013-10-07 18:58)losenotaminute Wrote:  I recently changed my top plate to the Khan, on the basis that this would be a meaningful upgrade, without trialling the new top plate. Like many people I read the reviews of the Khan, and took the advice of my dealer who has heard hundreds of LP12s over the years. I also based my buying decision on the "common sense" approach that the stock top plate is both bent and made of material that rings like a bell.
Do you agree?
Lawrence

Lawrence,
I disagree.
The "common sense" approach is misguiding. The stock top plate has to be bent to work properly and a material that rings like a bell sounds in most cases better. I would never buy a Khan without trialling.

KR

matthias

I don't really understand why the top plate has to be bent, plus the downside is that the subchassis bolts aren't nealry as easy to align. But no matter, I tend to take the common sense over the counter-intuitive in most cases and I'm happy with my choice. There is a huge amount of comment out there about the potential weaknesses of the original top plate design. Many people wonder why this is one part of the LP12 that Linn haven't touched, I don't have an answer to that conundrum, maybe the original is perfect? Smile

It wasn't practical for me to trial the top plate. It would have meant fitting it to my deck and taking it home, at which point I don't have the original deck against which to compare it. Admittedly I could tell if I didn't like the sound, but I had that option anyway since if I was very unhappy I could have had it removed by my dealer. That's why I raised the concept of trusting your dealer on some things, especially where it's not practical to do a side by side comparison. If I was buying expensive speakers or an amp etc., doing a comparison is easy (and highly advisable) but when it's something like a structural part of the deck, it seems to me that it's a lot harder to do a home trial. How would you go about doing a trial of the Kore?

Lawrence

Linn Sondek LP12 / Tiger-Paw Khan / Ittok LVII / Dynavector DV-20X2L / RFC MC1 / Pure Sound P10 / Kimber PBJ / Naim NAC 92 / Naim NAP 90 / Naim NAC A5 / Ruark Equinox / Quiet PC IcePipe A40 / Isol-8 Powerline / VPI HW-17
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2013-10-07, 20:34 (This post was last modified: 2013-10-07 20:37 by John G.)
Post: #179
RE: Kore new sub-chassi
(2013-10-07 20:24)losenotaminute Wrote:  
(2013-10-07 20:10)matthias Wrote:  
(2013-10-07 18:58)losenotaminute Wrote:  I recently changed my top plate to the Khan, on the basis that this would be a meaningful upgrade, without trialling the new top plate. Like many people I read the reviews of the Khan, and took the advice of my dealer who has heard hundreds of LP12s over the years. I also based my buying decision on the "common sense" approach that the stock top plate is both bent and made of material that rings like a bell.
Do you agree?
Lawrence

Lawrence,
I disagree.
The "common sense" approach is misguiding. The stock top plate has to be bent to work properly and a material that rings like a bell sounds in most cases better. I would never buy a Khan without trialling.

KR

matthias

I don't really understand why the top plate has to be bent, plus the downside is that the subchassis bolts aren't nealry as easy to align. But no matter, I tend to take the common sense over the counter-intuitive in most cases and I'm happy with my choice. There is a huge amount of comment out there about the potential weaknesses of the original top plate design. Many people wonder why this is one part of the LP12 that Linn haven't touched, I don't have an answer to that conundrum, maybe the original is perfect? Smile

It wasn't practical for me to trial the top plate. It would have meant fitting it to my deck and taking it home, at which point I don't have the original deck against which to compare it. Admittedly I could tell if I didn't like the sound, but I had that option anyway since if I was very unhappy I could have had it removed by my dealer. That's why I raised the concept of trusting your dealer on some things, especially where it's not practical to do a side by side comparison. If I was buying expensive speakers or an amp etc., doing a comparison is easy (and highly advisable) but when it's something like a structural part of the deck, it seems to me that it's a lot harder to do a home trial. How would you go about doing a trial of the Kore?

Lawrence

I imagine if you wanted to try one at home you would have to do what you did with the Khan and just purchase one with the agreement it could be refunded if you didn't like it.

If you're satisfied doing direct comparisons you would have to find a dealer like Peter, who is rare, who could pull off a standard vs. Kore with those being the only variable. Good Luck!

It would be nice if hi-res files could be made available of the various upgrades so we could download them and listen to the differences in the comfort of our home.

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2013-10-07, 20:44 (This post was last modified: 2013-10-07 20:45 by losenotaminute.)
Post: #180
RE: Kore new sub-chassi
I'm confident that my dealer would definitely have removed the Khan and not charged me if after having got it home I was less than happy. I don't remember him explicitly saying so, but he defeinitely did when I replaced my Asaka with the DV cartridge last year. As it turned out he brought the deck to my house (giving me a lift from the shop) and got everything up and running. We listened to a couple of records I know well and he could tell quite quickly by the smile on my face that he wasn't going to have to worry.

This is in the context of me having listened to a few products in the shop and at home that left me entirely underwhlemed and I didn't go for, so he knew I wasn't a complete sop despite the upgraditis I seem to have caught from this forum! Amusingly, the Chord interconnect he sold me fro my new SUT went straight back as the shielding wasn't even connected to the RCA barrel and it hummed like a light saber!

Lawrence

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