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Linn Klimax 350A vs. outboard Klimax crossovers and Klimax Solo amps
2009-04-11, 17:55
Post: #1
Linn Klimax 350A vs. outboard Klimax crossovers and Klimax Solo amps
This may have been addressed in prior threads, but can anybody comment on the difference between the new Klimax 350A's vs. Klimax 350's using an outboard Klimax crossover and Klimax Solo amps. Obviously the outboard solution is much more expensive; the question is is it worth the difference sonically? Also, I asked this question over on the LP-12 threads, but does Linn ever plan on upgrading the amplifier modules in the Klimax 350A's to be of the quality of the Klimax Solo's? My understanding is that even in the new Klimax 350A's the power amps are of Klimax Twin quality, not Klimax Solo quality. Also, is the Komri actually better than the Klimax speakers? Are there any recent upgrades available for the Komri? Does Linn ever plan on putting amplification and active crossovers inside the Komri?

LP-12, EKOS SE, KEEL, AKIVA, LINGO, LINTO, KLIMAX KONTROL, KLIMAX SOLO'S, SONDEK CD-12, KIMBER KABLE SELECT 1030 AND 3035, WILSON DUETTE'S.
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2009-04-13, 01:57
Post: #2
RE: Linn Klimax 350A vs. outboard Klimax crossovers and Klimax Solo amps
linn MD Wrote:This may have been addressed in prior threads, but can anybody comment on the difference between the new Klimax 350A's vs. Klimax 350's using an outboard Klimax crossover and Klimax Solo amps. Obviously the outboard solution is much more expensive; the question is is it worth the difference sonically? Also, I asked this question over on the LP-12 threads, but does Linn ever plan on upgrading the amplifier modules in the Klimax 350A's to be of the quality of the Klimax Solo's? My understanding is that even in the new Klimax 350A's the power amps are of Klimax Twin quality, not Klimax Solo quality. Also, is the Komri actually better than the Klimax speakers? Are there any recent upgrades available for the Komri? Does Linn ever plan on putting amplification and active crossovers inside the Komri?

LP-12, EKOS SE, KEEL, AKIVA, LINGO, LINTO, KLIMAX KONTROL, KLIMAX SOLO'S, SONDEK CD-12, KIMBER KABLE SELECT 1030 AND 3035, WILSON DUETTE'S.


This might be poor form, but I'm going to ask a follow-up question to my own post. Does anybody know if the crossover upgrades from Artikulate to Klimax in the 350 affect only the active version, or are the crossovers in the passive version of the 350 improved as well?
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2009-04-13, 08:15
Post: #3
RE: Linn Klimax 350A vs. outboard Klimax crossovers and Klimax Solo amps
This might be poor form, but I'm going to ask a follow-up question to my own post. Does anybody know if the crossover upgrades from Artikulate to Klimax in the 350 affect only the active version, or are the crossovers in the passive version of the 350 improved as well

Both passive and aktiv 350 use the same servo conrol and aktiv crossovers for the bass. These are upgraded the same on both speaker. The array is driven by a passive crossover on the 350P and aktiv on the 350A therefore the aktiv upgrade does not affect the passive version, but the passive version has an upgraded passive crossover.
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2009-04-23, 13:51
Post: #4
RE: Linn Klimax 350A vs. outboard Klimax crossovers and Klimax Solo amps
whizz Wrote:Both passive and aktiv 350 use the same servo conrol and aktiv crossovers for the bass. These are upgraded the same on both speaker. The array is driven by a passive crossover on the 350P and aktiv on the 350A therefore the aktiv upgrade does not affect the passive version, but the passive version has an upgraded passive crossover.

This is not quite correct. As you are probably aware, the servo systems in the Klimax loudspeaker range are always Aktiv. For each drive unit, the servo system consists of:

- An Aktiv card;
- A servo card;
- A power amplifier.

Both the Passive and Aktiv Klimax 350s use the same type of servo card, however there are four different variants of Aktiv cards:

- 2 for the Aktiv configuration (standard fit in Klimax 350A)
- 2 for the Passive configuration (standard fit in Passive Klimax 350)

(The upper servo and lower servo require slightly different treatment for acoustic reasons.) (As an aside, there were only 2 types of Aktiv cards for Artikulat 350 servo systems)

When Passive Klimax 350 are converted for use with external Aktiv crossovers (either Aktiv cards or tuneboxes) the standard fit Aktiv cards are exchanged for a set designed for a fully Aktiv configuration.

linn MD Wrote:Does anybody know if the crossover upgrades from Artikulate to Klimax in the 350 affect only the active version, or are the crossovers in the passive version of the 350 improved as well

There is an upgrade kit available for the Passive Artikulat 350 that takes the performance up to that of the Passive Klimax 350, it includes a new Passive crossover, a new 3k array, a pair of servo cards and a set of Aktiv cards (designed for the passive configuration).

linn MD Wrote:...can anybody comment on the difference between the new Klimax 350A's vs. Klimax 350's using an outboard Klimax crossover and Klimax Solo amps. Obviously the outboard solution is much more expensive; the question is is it worth the difference sonically?

As I was involved in the development of both solutions, it would be unfair of me to comment. Only the individual customer can decide if they think any one solution is worth the extra expense compared to another solution. I would give the same advice to anyone, you should listen for yourself.

Kind regards

Dan.
Electronics Engineer
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2009-04-23, 17:06
Post: #5
RE: Linn Klimax 350A vs. outboard Klimax crossovers and Klimax Solo amps
linn MD Wrote:This may have been addressed in prior threads, but can anybody comment on the difference between the new Klimax 350A's vs. Klimax 350's using an outboard Klimax crossover and Klimax Solo amps.
I know at least one person that prefer 350p with Solo over 350A.

linn MD Wrote:My understanding is that even in the new Klimax 350A's the power amps are of Klimax Twin quality, not Klimax Solo quality.
According to Linn info when Artikulat 350s were released it's chakra amps with different power output. If the amps inside klimax 350 have been enhanced from 100w/200w chakra quality up to Twin quality - only Linn can answer on.

linn MD Wrote:Also, is the Komri actually better than the Klimax speakers? Are there any recent upgrades available for the Komri?
No recent upgrade to my knowledge.
I prefer Komri (even passive) over Klimax.
You get what you paying for!
fyi, heard many Artikulat&Klimax 350/320 speakers but my Komri at home is more musical, better sounding AND produce bass/power/dynamics to die for.
The 350s is like Hi-Res reproduction but Komri is like having the band playing live in the room.
Komri is the real deal!!!

linn MD Wrote:Does Linn ever plan on putting amplification and active crossovers inside the Komri?
I don’t think so as you then have to redesign them. Not enough space inside the cabinet. It's better to have them outside on a good rack anyway.

My advice; keep the Solo, get a pair of Komri.

Goodbye folks, see you @ http://www.lejonklou.com/forum
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2009-04-24, 01:10
Post: #6
RE: Linn Klimax 350A vs. outboard Klimax crossovers and Klimax Solo amps
DanielE Wrote:
whizz Wrote:Both passive and aktiv 350 use the same servo conrol and aktiv crossovers for the bass. These are upgraded the same on both speaker. The array is driven by a passive crossover on the 350P and aktiv on the 350A therefore the aktiv upgrade does not affect the passive version, but the passive version has an upgraded passive crossover.

This is not quite correct. As you are probably aware, the servo systems in the Klimax loudspeaker range are always Aktiv. For each drive unit, the servo system consists of:

- An Aktiv card;
- A servo card;
- A power amplifier.

Both the Passive and Aktiv Klimax 350s use the same type of servo card, however there are four different variants of Aktiv cards:

- 2 for the Aktiv configuration (standard fit in Klimax 350A)
- 2 for the Passive configuration (standard fit in Passive Klimax 350)

(The upper servo and lower servo require slightly different treatment for acoustic reasons.) (As an aside, there were only 2 types of Aktiv cards for Artikulat 350 servo systems)

When Passive Klimax 350 are converted for use with external Aktiv crossovers (either Aktiv cards or tuneboxes) the standard fit Aktiv cards are exchanged for a set designed for a fully Aktiv configuration.

linn MD Wrote:Does anybody know if the crossover upgrades from Artikulate to Klimax in the 350 affect only the active version, or are the crossovers in the passive version of the 350 improved as well

There is an upgrade kit available for the Passive Artikulat 350 that takes the performance up to that of the Passive Klimax 350, it includes a new Passive crossover, a new 3k array, a pair of servo cards and a set of Aktiv cards (designed for the passive configuration).

linn MD Wrote:...can anybody comment on the difference between the new Klimax 350A's vs. Klimax 350's using an outboard Klimax crossover and Klimax Solo amps. Obviously the outboard solution is much more expensive; the question is is it worth the difference sonically?

As I was involved in the development of both solutions, it would be unfair of me to comment. Only the individual customer can decide if they think any one solution is worth the extra expense compared to another solution. I would give the same advice to anyone, you should listen for yourself.

Kind regards

Dan.
Electronics Engineer
Dan, I appreciate the comments. I would love to go listen for myself which I typically do when it comes to making Linn upgrades, but I am not aware of anywhere in the United States where I can go and listen to a Klimax 350A and compare it to the 350 with an outboard Klimax crossover and 8 Klimax Solo's. I've heard the Artiklulate 350A's and enjoyed them. So if you could give me some idea of what differences I might expect between the two, I would really appreciate it. If I can't find anywhere in the United States to make this comparison, I might grab my dealer and fly to Glasgow to make the comparison. Also, could you comment on the level of quality of amplification in the Klimax 350A's? Is it Chakra quality as in the Magic or Akurate series, or is it Klimax Twin quality? And are the Akurate amps better sonically than the Magic when you use them in an active configuration like this? Thanks, linn MD

LP12/KEEL/EKOS SE/LINTO/LINGO/ARKIV/SONDEK CD12/KLIMAX KONTROL/KLIMAX SOLO'S/KIMBER KABLE 1030 AND 3035/WILSON DUETTE'S.
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2009-04-24, 01:20
Post: #7
RE: Linn Klimax 350A vs. outboard Klimax crossovers and Klimax Solo amps
Music Lover Wrote:
linn MD Wrote:This may have been addressed in prior threads, but can anybody comment on the difference between the new Klimax 350A's vs. Klimax 350's using an outboard Klimax crossover and Klimax Solo amps.
I know at least one person that prefer 350p with Solo over 350A.

linn MD Wrote:My understanding is that even in the new Klimax 350A's the power amps are of Klimax Twin quality, not Klimax Solo quality.
According to Linn info when Artikulat 350s were released it's chakra amps with different power output. If the amps inside klimax 350 have been enhanced from 100w/200w chakra quality up to Twin quality - only Linn can answer on.

linn MD Wrote:Also, is the Komri actually better than the Klimax speakers? Are there any recent upgrades available for the Komri?
No recent upgrade to my knowledge.
I prefer Komri (even passive) over Klimax.
You get what you paying for!
fyi, heard many Artikulat&Klimax 350/320 speakers but my Komri at home is more musical, better sounding AND produce bass/power/dynamics to die for.
The 350s is like Hi-Res reproduction but Komri is like having the band playing live in the room.
Komri is the real deal!!!

linn MD Wrote:Does Linn ever plan on putting amplification and active crossovers inside the Komri?
I don’t think so as you then have to redesign them. Not enough space inside the cabinet. It's better to have them outside on a good rack anyway.

My advice; keep the Solo, get a pair of Komri.
Music Lover, thanks so much. I haven't heard Komri's for years, but I heard them in Las Vegas when Linn introduced them, and I heard them at a very good dealer in Scottsdale, Arizona, and enjoyed them immensely. I believe they did upgrade the 4K array at one point, but I'm unaware of any further upgrades (are you aware of any others?). I like the looks of the Klimax better and feel they would visually integrate better in my home, but the Komri's are good looking too, and it sounds like you feel the Solo's work well with them passively. Thanks for the advice, and I'll go seek them out to listen again. - linn MD

LP12/KEEL/EKOS SE/AKIVA/LINTO/LINGO/SONDEK CD-12/KLIMAX KONTROL/KLIMAX SOLO'S/KIMBER KABLE 1030 AND 3035/WILSON DUETTE'S.
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2009-04-24, 09:33
Post: #8
RE: Linn Klimax 350A vs. outboard Klimax crossovers and Klimax Solo amps
Komri is UGLY, Klimax is great looking - but performance is key.

Yes the array has been modified and also the bass amps, but that was in the beginning = many many years ago. Going to be VERY unlikely that any Komri isn't upgraded as we talking about the top of the line model and the upgrades were for free. If you are not sure, send the Komri sn# to Linn and they can confirm.

Well, get on with it - buy Komri and start collecting Klimax amps. When you have enough channels (8) get the Klimax Xover.
Life is too short not enjoying it on a Klimax level, sorry Komri level.

Goodbye folks, see you @ http://www.lejonklou.com/forum
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2009-04-24, 09:36
Post: #9
RE: Linn Klimax 350A vs. outboard Klimax crossovers and Klimax Solo amps
Another important item, Komri must be installed down to 1-2mm so make sure your dealer spend time finding the exact correct position!

Goodbye folks, see you @ http://www.lejonklou.com/forum
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2009-04-24, 10:55
Post: #10
RE: Linn Klimax 350A vs. outboard Klimax crossovers and Klimax Solo amps
Hi linn MD,

linn MD Wrote:Dan, I appreciate the comments. I would love to go listen for myself which I typically do when it comes to making Linn upgrades, but I am not aware of anywhere in the United States where I can go and listen to a Klimax 350A and compare it to the 350 with an outboard Klimax crossover and 8 Klimax Solo's.
Where abouts in the United States are you based, I shall try and find out where your nearest dealer is that could offer this demonstration. If this is not possible, then I am sure you would be made more than welcome here in Glasgow.
linn MD Wrote:I've heard the Artiklulate 350A's and enjoyed them. So if you could give me some idea of what differences I might expect between the two, I would really appreciate it.
The Klimax 350 and 350A were developed from the Artikulat, we re-designed the servo control loop to give a much improved bass system. It is faster than the Artikulat with lower distortion. The 3k array was changed, and as a result we had to re-design the crossovers for both passive and aktiv variants, when doing this we employed knowledge gained during the development of the Komri Aktiv Tunebox amongst other products. The result is a more open, larger soundstage, which makes the Klimax speakers easier to follow the tune than the Artikulats were.
The new stand again makes the tune easier to follow.
linn MD Wrote:Also, could you comment on the level of quality of amplification in the Klimax 350A's? Is it Chakra quality as in the Magic or Akurate series, or is it Klimax Twin quality? And are the Akurate amps better sonically than the Magic when you use them in an active configuration like this? Thanks, linn MD
The Amplifiers used in the Klimax 350A's are based on the Akurate Power amplifiers. In a like-for-like comparison the Akurate amplifiers are better sonically than the Majik amps when used in either Passive or Aktiv mode.

I hope this helps.

Dan E
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