Linn Forums

Current time: 2017-11-24, 10:14 Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Linn Forums / Meta / Off-topic v / Brexit

Post Reply 
Brexit
2017-10-24, 08:47
Post: #311
RE: Brexit
(2017-10-24 07:18)Mark57 Wrote:  Ok - I’ll play. Despite having voted to remain, albeit reluctantly, I am now supportive of leaving given the referendum result. Some points

* This is a long term decision. The economy will suffer (a bit) in the short term, but can be better in the long term, although I would acknowledge that that will be down to the policies that are put in place by government
* The vast majority (>80%) of the economy is domestic and services which at worst will be totally unaffected and at best enhanced by the flexibilty post leaving of not being subject to EU laws
* We haven’t left yet, and to all intents and purposes won’t effectively leave until the end of the ‘lmplementation period’ in 2021, so there can be no reduction in what we pay the EU to be expected until after then. Assuming the government doesn't agree something stupid like ‘paying for access’ in the final deal (why should we? No other third party country does) we will after 2021 save our net contribution which can then be used as our government sees fit.
* No deal can be expected to be agreed until 11:59pm on the last day. That’s the way the EU works.

We all need to remember the Chinese premier’s comment on the success of the French Revolution: ‘it’s too too early to say’. It will be decades before the sense or otherwise of this decision can be assessed.

Personally I am just angry that this has all been caused by the arrogance of the EU refusing to give Cameron anything on immigration before the referendum (such as an ‘emergency brake’) which would likely have changed the outcome. But we are where we are.
Ah yes, it's all the EUs fault now. Tongue

I think the EU was, and is, as much about working together as well as solving problems together.
Its not like the UK had the largest flow of immigrants anyway. That would be Germany.
What did you expect? That we wouldn't ask the UK to do their part?

I could even argue that the decision of the UK to accept the 'weapons of mass destruction' bull shit argument as a reason to start a war as a direct cause of the flow of immigrants from that region towards Europe.

Tin can telephone system.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-10-25, 06:19
Post: #312
RE: Brexit
In the Grauniad today:

Quote:Michael Bloomberg: Brexit is stupidest thing any country has done besides Trump

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/201...ides-trump

Not entirely sure which is stupider to be honest!

Akurate EDSM | Majik ExaktBox-I [on Custom Design iRAPs] | Majik 140, REL T5
Rega RP1, [QNAP HS-251+, Jitterbug, MinimServer, Asset], Kazoo [Linx1010]

AV: Marantz NR1506 | B&W 620(C), M1(S), REL T5 (LFE) | Fronts powered by Linn
Net: NetGear DGN2200 | GS108 | AQ Forest x3

Hello to Jason Isaacs
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-10-25, 06:25 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-25 06:26 by timster.)
Post: #313
RE: Brexit
It gets worse:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/20...ton-harris

At least No.10 rebuked him. But it does shine a light.

Akurate EDSM | Majik ExaktBox-I [on Custom Design iRAPs] | Majik 140, REL T5
Rega RP1, [QNAP HS-251+, Jitterbug, MinimServer, Asset], Kazoo [Linx1010]

AV: Marantz NR1506 | B&W 620(C), M1(S), REL T5 (LFE) | Fronts powered by Linn
Net: NetGear DGN2200 | GS108 | AQ Forest x3

Hello to Jason Isaacs
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-10-25, 06:45
Post: #314
RE: Brexit
(2017-10-25 06:19)timster Wrote:  In the Grauniad today:

Quote:Michael Bloomberg: Brexit is stupidest thing any country has done besides Trump

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/201...ides-trump

Not entirely sure which is stupider to be honest!
Trump wins this one hands down, no worries.

The downfall of the UK only has a slight impact on the rest of the world. Yes, the EU will have a slight financial fallback, but nothing like the last crisis.

Trump on the other hand wants to increase climate change, is refuelling the Civil War and tries to start a nuclear war with both North Korea and Iran.
All of them may well ignite WW3.

Tin can telephone system.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-10-25, 07:04
Post: #315
RE: Brexit
(2017-10-25 06:25)timster Wrote:  It gets worse:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/20...ton-harris

At least No.10 rebuked him. But it does shine a light.
The UK already has a better surveillance system than the Stasi did. The UK has been going into that direction for a very long time.

For me this is one of the positive points of Brexit, for the EU that is, obviously not for the UK. There are some laws in the EU hurting my privacy and with the UK gone they might well be changed into more humane versions.

N.B. The Stasi were the East German (DDR) secret police so I didn't mention the War.

Tin can telephone system.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-10-25, 07:05
Post: #316
RE: Brexit
Agree Trump is dangerous. It was a dangerous decision. Brexit was a dumb decision. The former was stupid because it was dangerous. The latter was stupid because it was dumb.

Akurate EDSM | Majik ExaktBox-I [on Custom Design iRAPs] | Majik 140, REL T5
Rega RP1, [QNAP HS-251+, Jitterbug, MinimServer, Asset], Kazoo [Linx1010]

AV: Marantz NR1506 | B&W 620(C), M1(S), REL T5 (LFE) | Fronts powered by Linn
Net: NetGear DGN2200 | GS108 | AQ Forest x3

Hello to Jason Isaacs
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-10-25, 08:40
Post: #317
RE: Brexit
(2017-10-24 08:47)Tin Wrote:  
(2017-10-24 07:18)Mark57 Wrote:  ....

Personally I am just angry that this has all been caused by the arrogance of the EU refusing to give Cameron anything on immigration before the referendum (such as an ‘emergency brake’) which would likely have changed the outcome. But we are where we are.
Ah yes, it's all the EUs fault now. Tongue

I think the EU was, and is, as much about working together as well as solving problems together.
Its not like the UK had the largest flow of immigrants anyway. That would be Germany.
What did you expect? That we wouldn't ask the UK to do their part?

I could even argue that the decision of the UK to accept the 'weapons of mass destruction' bull shit argument as a reason to start a war as a direct cause of the flow of immigrants from that region towards Europe.

Wrong immigrants. Uk has, and had, no issue with taking a share of displaced Syrians etc. The issue was (and is) unrestricted immigration from rest of EU. As of 2016 UK hosted 3.6million EU born citizens, mostly from the newer EU states. Yes, it was the idiot Labour government that didn’t apply the restrictions available when the EU expanded to the East, but this mass movement of people is far more than Germany or any other EU country has had to absorb, and this kind of migration was certainly not envisaged when the EU founders agreed on ‘freedom of movement’. For what it’s worth I happen think it’s a good thing and will be to our benefit in the long run, but most of those who voted leave do not. What they see is their jobs being taken by ‘foreigners’, wages undercut and public services (health, education etc) put under pressure.

Something like an emergency handbrake would have been enough to tip the vote the other way, but the EU couldn’t manage even so tiny a ‘concession’ as that. So, yes, actually the result is the EU’s fault.

But as I said before we are where we are and will all have to make the best of it.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-10-25, 09:37 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-25 09:38 by Tin.)
Post: #318
RE: Brexit
We have had the same argument in the Netherlands. Truth is the people complaining about their jobs being stolen don't seem to be very eager to get those jobs when they're being offered them.
I remember an experiment a few years ago where Brits were being offered jobs in factories and such, the BBC had a very interesting documentary about it.
Long story short, they rushed as fast back into wellfare as their chubby little feet could take them.

The NHS has thousands of jobs waiting to be picked up and not a single UK citizen wants it as the hours are irregular and they'd have to work hard.

And as I said, we do have the same problem here. We -need- Polish and Rumanian people to get things done. I work in a company where over half of the workforce is foreign because they can't find qualified and motivated people in the Netherlands. This is a high tech software company BTW.

People stealing jobs is the worst argument for a handbrake and would have hurt the economies of all European countries as that rule would've been implemtend Europe wide.

As for your internal economy, the UK isn't self sustainable and won't be, not with all the dependence on modern and very global technology. You may be able to increase the growth of food, but that is really the least of your worries.

The only reason Linn exists is because smart foreigners were leaving a country where they didn't feel welcome anymore.
The only reason The Netherlands had their Golden age is because smart foreigners were fleeing -into- the country as the Spanish were pushing them North.
The Hanseatic league? Same thing, opening borders and welcoming trade.
Japan became a global economy after they opened up to foreigners.
The City is what it is because of foreigners, not despite it.

If you're not going to learn from history there is really no point in having it.
Highly educated foreigners are already leaving the UK, that number will keep growing for a while.

Tin can telephone system.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-11-14, 09:30 (This post was last modified: 2017-11-14 09:30 by Tin.)
Post: #319
RE: Brexit
https://www.facebook.com/HeraldCS/photos...=3&theater

Tin can telephone system.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)