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Exakt on the Web Site - Inaccurate Claims?
2016-04-04, 22:28 (This post was last modified: 2016-04-05 09:09 by sunbeamgls.)
Post: #1
Exakt on the Web Site - Inaccurate Claims?
Following an email exchange with the Linn helpline, I think there needs to be a change to the description of Exakt in relation to correcting drive unit manufacturing variances. An example is extracted from the site below, but there may be other references on the site and in Linn docs and other places (my bolding):

"Physical variation between parts exists in even the most accurate manufacturing processes. Exakt corrects for the tiniest variation between drive units meaning that every speaker is tailored to perform exactly as intended.
A degree of tolerance in the manufacturing process is a factor acoustic engineers normally have to accept when designing loudspeakers.
Even when two drive units are manufactured to the same specification, using the same process, there are always variations between them. Until now, there has been no way of correcting for these differences.
Now, Linn measures the electrical characteristics and response of every single drive unit before it is installed in the speaker. Exakt corrects these inevitable variations within its digital crossover to ensure that your speaker performs exactly as our acoustic engineers intended.
Every speaker’s unique drive unit measurements are stored in the cloud so that future improvements can be delivered directly to your speaker in your home."

According to the helpline, ALL Majik level speakers use generic values for driver units and are not measured at time of manufacture. So one of the key features of Exakt is not actually applied to Majik speakers and the web site is making erroneous statements (or the helpline has the wrong information?). I expect that the claims cannot be applied to non-Linn speakers either, as they will not be measured and the data will not be stored in the cloud.

Thanks

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2016-04-05, 07:47
Post: #2
RE: Exakt on the Web Site - Inaccurate Claims
(2016-04-04 22:28)sunbeamgls Wrote:  Following an email exchange with the Linn helpline, I think there needs to be a change to the description of Exakt in relation to correcting drive unit manufacturing variances. An example is extracted from the site below, but there may be other references on the site and in Linn docs and other places (my bolding):

"Physical variation between parts exists in even the most accurate manufacturing processes. Exakt corrects for the tiniest variation between drive units meaning that every speaker is tailored to perform exactly as intended.
A degree of tolerance in the manufacturing process is a factor acoustic engineers normally have to accept when designing loudspeakers.
Even when two drive units are manufactured to the same specification, using the same process, there are always variations between them. Until now, there has been no way of correcting for these differences.
Now, Linn measures the electrical characteristics and response of every single drive unit before it is installed in the speaker. Exakt corrects these inevitable variations within its digital crossover to ensure that your speaker performs exactly as our acoustic engineers intended.
Every speaker’s unique drive unit measurements are stored in the cloud so that future improvements can be delivered directly to your speaker in your home."

According to the helpline, ALL Majik level speakers use generic values for driver units and are not measured at time of manufacture. So one of the key features of Exakt is not actually applied to Majik speakers and the web site is making erroneous statements (or the helpline has the wrong information?). I expect that the claims cannot be applied to non-Linn speakers either, as they will not be measured and the data will not be stored in the cloud.

Thanks

Errr I HOPE the helpline is wrong! I was told and am fairly confident that my 140s are Exakt measured (hence the download from the cloud when my Exaktbox was installed). They may be referring to date of manufacture, but if you look in Linn Docs (currently down so no link sorry) the 140s were listed as Exakt-compatible (meaning measured, not generic).

Akurate EDSM | Majik ExaktBox-I [on Custom Design iRAPs] | Majik 140, REL T5
Rega RP1, [QNAP HS-251+, Jitterbug, MinimServer, Asset], Kazoo [Linx1010]

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2016-04-05, 07:56 (This post was last modified: 2016-04-05 07:59 by linnrd.)
Post: #3
RE: Exakt on the Web Site - Inaccurate Claims
(2016-04-05 07:47)timster Wrote:  Errr I HOPE the helpline is wrong! I was told and am fairly confident that my 140s are Exakt measured (hence the download from the cloud when my Exaktbox was installed). They may be referring to date of manufacture, but if you look in Linn Docs (currently down so no link sorry) the 140s were listed as Exakt-compatible (meaning measured, not generic).
M109 and M140 have been around before Exakt was a gleam in the eye. Unless Linn made and recorded all driver characteristics (in which case all Linn speakers could be Exakt ready or whatever the term du jour is), why would you think the driver measurements would be recorded? I can't recall hearing this about Linn drivers, unlike for example with B&W (who measure each mid/HF driver and then assign the serial no. to it) because for a replacement, they assure driver matching.
EDIT: Might be worth asking about the Akurate 212 and 242, etc as well. Does one get a new nK array? If not, methinks the answer is pretty obvious.

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2016-04-05, 08:01
Post: #4
RE: Exakt on the Web Site - Inaccurate Claims
Generally speaking I don't trust helplines or people who write content for websites, but I have good experiences with the Linn helpline, and the answer they've given Sunbeam is more complex than 'sure we do', which a clueless helpline would have given.
So, a clueful helpline, giving a complex answer, is way more trustworthy than a few nice sentences on a website.
By comparing the two I feel like letting the Linn helpline down, so for me its a no-brainer; Marketing 0, Helpline 1.
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2016-04-05, 08:20 (This post was last modified: 2016-04-05 08:22 by Tin.)
Post: #5
RE: Exakt on the Web Site - Inaccurate Claims
(2016-04-05 07:56)linnrd Wrote:  
(2016-04-05 07:47)timster Wrote:  Errr I HOPE the helpline is wrong! I was told and am fairly confident that my 140s are Exakt measured (hence the download from the cloud when my Exaktbox was installed). They may be referring to date of manufacture, but if you look in Linn Docs (currently down so no link sorry) the 140s were listed as Exakt-compatible (meaning measured, not generic).
M109 and M140 have been around before Exakt was a gleam in the eye. Unless Linn made and recorded all driver characteristics (in which case all Linn speakers could be Exakt ready or whatever the term du jour is), why would you think the driver measurements would be recorded? I can't recall hearing this about Linn drivers, unlike for example with B&W (who measure each mid/HF driver and then assign the serial no. to it) because for a replacement, they assure driver matching.
EDIT: Might be worth asking about the Akurate 212 and 242, etc as well. Does one get a new nK array? If not, methinks the answer is pretty obvious.
The helpline told me that Linn started to measure drivers as from the Mk 2 versions of the 3K arrays. I got this answer after I read a remark somewhere from Bilbo which made me wonder.
As it took me ages to figure out how to correctly tune my Aktiv 110s I was afraid I'd get the same problem with 212s.
As the 212s and 242s were only designed for Aktiv setups, not Exakt, I think the measurements aren't going much further than a discrete amount of dB compared to the baseline. Further measurements wouldn't have made any sense.
I'm pretty sure B&Ws measurements are similar, as they have analogue crossovers as well.

Also, I think that I read somewhere that Exakt speakers have the possibility to change gain settings per channel, just like ordinary Aktiv has.

All in all I doubt the measurement of the tweeters is really that scientifically interesting.
It can't be for older 3K arrays or non-Linn speakers anyways.
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2016-04-05, 08:57
Post: #6
RE: Exakt on the Web Site - Inaccurate Claims
OK, my question was "are my Majik 140s serial numbers x and y using measured or generic Exakt filters?"

This was the reply;

"The Majik 140 speakers are using a generic filter as the Majik loudspeakers are not measured"

Main: AK/0/D; AEDSM; MeiCord AExaktbox10; Silvers 2x A4200/1; K400 NSL Exakt dual-mono PMC Twenty.26; Twenty.C; Blacks AV5125 PMC Twenty.21
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2016-04-05, 09:19 (This post was last modified: 2016-04-05 09:27 by Donald.)
Post: #7
RE: Exakt on the Web Site - Inaccurate Claims?
I asked Philbo the same questions last year in relation to SO+ and driver tolerances for my Keilidhs.

1. Space Optimisation +

"The '+' version has a more complete understanding of what each individual drive unit is adding to the room model - we have a full knowledge of the source. This allows for a better estimate of room modes as well as the potential for more extensive filtering (we are currently looking at ways of extending the capabilities of the Exakt room optimisation system) than would be possible within the constraints of a DS or DSM."

2. Driver tolerances.

" ... we do not have the specific measurements for the drive units in your Keilidhs. Instead we use averaged measurements from the small stock of drive units we have available to us at Linn. On the bright side, assuming a 5% tolerance on the drive units we can assure you that we are removing at least 95% of the phase distortions from your system."

Hope this helps?

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2016-04-05, 09:32
Post: #8
RE: Exakt on the Web Site - Inaccurate Claims?
(2016-04-05 09:19)Donald Wrote:  I asked Philbo the same questions last year in relation to SO+ and driver tolerances for my Keilidhs.

1. Space Optimisation +

"The '+' version has a more complete understanding of what each individual drive unit is adding to the room model - we have a full knowledge of the source. This allows for a better estimate of room modes as well as the potential for more extensive filtering (we are currently looking at ways of extending the capabilities of the Exakt room optimisation system) than would be possible within the constraints of a DS or DSM."

2. Driver tolerances.

" ... we do not have the specific measurements for the drive units in your Keilidhs. Instead we use averaged measurements from the small stock of drive units we have available to us at Linn. On the bright side, assuming a 5% tolerance on the drive units we can assure you that we are removing at least 95% of the phase distortions from your system."

Hope this helps?

I think all of the above is entirely reasonable Donald.

I'm also happy to accept that my Majik 140s, that were built before Exakt existed, are using a generic filter, that's perfectly reasonable.

However, I think the web site is misleading to say that all individual speaker drive units are measured before install, which contradicts the information from the helpline. It needs to say all Akurate and Klimax drive units (if this is true, not sure they actually measure bass drivers on any speaker).

Main: AK/0/D; AEDSM; MeiCord AExaktbox10; Silvers 2x A4200/1; K400 NSL Exakt dual-mono PMC Twenty.26; Twenty.C; Blacks AV5125 PMC Twenty.21
Playroom: SBT; V-DAC1; Cyrus6; M773e
Garage: SBT/Rega DAC; Arcam AVR100; 2x AV5125; Aktiv Ninkas, Trikan, AVSeKretan
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2016-04-05, 12:05
Post: #9
RE: Exakt on the Web Site - Inaccurate Claims?
(2016-04-05 09:32)sunbeamgls Wrote:  
(2016-04-05 09:19)Donald Wrote:  I asked Philbo the same questions last year in relation to SO+ and driver tolerances for my Keilidhs.

1. Space Optimisation +

"The '+' version has a more complete understanding of what each individual drive unit is adding to the room model - we have a full knowledge of the source. This allows for a better estimate of room modes as well as the potential for more extensive filtering (we are currently looking at ways of extending the capabilities of the Exakt room optimisation system) than would be possible within the constraints of a DS or DSM."

2. Driver tolerances.

" ... we do not have the specific measurements for the drive units in your Keilidhs. Instead we use averaged measurements from the small stock of drive units we have available to us at Linn. On the bright side, assuming a 5% tolerance on the drive units we can assure you that we are removing at least 95% of the phase distortions from your system."

Hope this helps?

I think all of the above is entirely reasonable Donald.

I'm also happy to accept that my Majik 140s, that were built before Exakt existed, are using a generic filter, that's perfectly reasonable.

However, I think the web site is misleading to say that all individual speaker drive units are measured before install, which contradicts the information from the helpline. It needs to say all Akurate and Klimax drive units (if this is true, not sure they actually measure bass drivers on any speaker).

Just had it confirmed that Majik 140s are measured, and this is true since at least 2015/14. So the statement is in fact correct, notwithstanding the date of install. It could clarify and say since 20?? though.

Akurate EDSM | Majik ExaktBox-I [on Custom Design iRAPs] | Majik 140, REL T5
Rega RP1, [QNAP HS-251+, Jitterbug, MinimServer, Asset], Kazoo [Linx1010]

AV: Marantz NR1506 | B&W 620(C), M1(S), REL T5 (LFE) | Fronts powered by Linn
Net: NetGear DGN2200 | GS108 | AQ Forest x3

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2016-04-05, 12:39
Post: #10
RE: Exakt on the Web Site - Inaccurate Claims?
(2016-04-05 12:05)timster Wrote:  
(2016-04-05 09:32)sunbeamgls Wrote:  
(2016-04-05 09:19)Donald Wrote:  I asked Philbo the same questions last year in relation to SO+ and driver tolerances for my Keilidhs.

1. Space Optimisation +

"The '+' version has a more complete understanding of what each individual drive unit is adding to the room model - we have a full knowledge of the source. This allows for a better estimate of room modes as well as the potential for more extensive filtering (we are currently looking at ways of extending the capabilities of the Exakt room optimisation system) than would be possible within the constraints of a DS or DSM."

2. Driver tolerances.

" ... we do not have the specific measurements for the drive units in your Keilidhs. Instead we use averaged measurements from the small stock of drive units we have available to us at Linn. On the bright side, assuming a 5% tolerance on the drive units we can assure you that we are removing at least 95% of the phase distortions from your system."

Hope this helps?

I think all of the above is entirely reasonable Donald.

I'm also happy to accept that my Majik 140s, that were built before Exakt existed, are using a generic filter, that's perfectly reasonable.

However, I think the web site is misleading to say that all individual speaker drive units are measured before install, which contradicts the information from the helpline. It needs to say all Akurate and Klimax drive units (if this is true, not sure they actually measure bass drivers on any speaker).

Just had it confirmed that Majik 140s are measured, and this is true since at least 2015/14. So the statement is in fact correct, notwithstanding the date of install. It could clarify and say since 20?? though.

Who has confirmed this Timster? Looks like mixed messages coming out of Linn.

Main: AK/0/D; AEDSM; MeiCord AExaktbox10; Silvers 2x A4200/1; K400 NSL Exakt dual-mono PMC Twenty.26; Twenty.C; Blacks AV5125 PMC Twenty.21
Playroom: SBT; V-DAC1; Cyrus6; M773e
Garage: SBT/Rega DAC; Arcam AVR100; 2x AV5125; Aktiv Ninkas, Trikan, AVSeKretan
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