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Solos passive -> Exakt Akudorik?
2017-09-20, 18:34
Post: #31
RE: Solos passive -> Exakt Akudorik?
Dear All,

I hadn't realized that this thread has been reactivated, so sorry for the late reply. Let me explain what I did:

What I was missing from my passive 212s system (with two subs) was a true fullrange sound, especially more midbass. The 212s are very tuneful and musical, but their midbass is just too weak to achieve a fullrange sound. The subs cannot substitute for missing midbass.

To be clear, musicality and tunefulness is more important to me than a fullrange sound, but listening to orchestra music or rock music is just less enjoyable if you keep feeling that something is missing (with chamber music or jazz the difference is less important).

Things improved a lot after I (following extensive tests) removed one sub from the system and moved the other sub outside the speakers instead of placing it between the speakers. In theory - and in a perfect world - two subs should be better than one, but in my case one sub was clearly better and resulted in a much better performance of the system, also in better midbass. Somehow the two subs were compromising each other, possibly because of their asymmetrical placement in the room.

Still, I was eager to try something else and when a nice pair of second hand 242s came along I pulled the trigger. I had listed to 242s a couple of times before (active and passive, but never on Solos), but they had never fully convinced me. So there was a risk in buying the 242s, but I wanted to try them at home in my own system.

As it turned out, this was the best move I could make. The result is stunning! 242s on Solos plus one 226 is among the very best systems I ever heard. It's at least as musical as 212s/226, but with a fullrange sound and much better midbass. The system now finally performs like I always wished that it should.

I am also glad that my 212s found a happy new owner in Scotland. :-) So things turned out perfectly for everyone.

Cheers,
Matthias

LP12 (Klimax Radikal, Keel, Ekos SE, Kandid, Urika) - KDS/3 (QNAP TS-119, Netgear GS108) - KK/1 - Klimax Solos/D - Akurate 226 - Akurate 242
Keith Monks RCM II
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2017-09-20, 18:45 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-20 18:49 by Jeff R.)
Post: #32
RE: Solos passive -> Exakt Akudorik?
(2017-09-20 18:34)Sondek Wrote:  Dear All,

I hadn't realized that this thread has been reactivated, so sorry for the late reply. Let me explain what I did:

What I was missing from my passive 212s system (with two subs) was a true fullrange sound, especially more midbass. The 212s are very tuneful and musical, but their midbass is just too weak to achieve a fullrange sound. The subs cannot substitute for missing midbass.

To be clear, musicality and tunefulness is more important to me than a fullrange sound, but listening to orchestra music or rock music is just less enjoyable if you keep feeling that something is missing (with chamber music or jazz the difference is less important).

Things improved a lot after I (following extensive tests) removed one sub from the system and moved the other sub outside the speakers instead of placing it between the speakers. In theory - and in a perfect world - two subs should be better than one, but in my case one sub was clearly better and resulted in a much better performance of the system, also in better midbass. Somehow the two subs were compromising each other, possibly because of their asymmetrical placement in the room.

Still, I was eager to try something else and when a nice pair of second hand 242s came along I pulled the trigger. I had listed to 242s a couple of times before (active and passive, but never on Solos), but they had never fully convinced me. So there was a risk in buying the 242s, but I wanted to try them at home in my own system.

As it turned out, this was the best move I could make. The result is stunning! 242s on Solos plus one 226 is among the very best systems I ever heard. It's at least as musical as 212s/226, but with a fullrange sound and much better midbass. The system now finally performs like I always wished that it should.

I am also glad that my 212s found a happy new owner in Scotland. :-) So things turned out perfectly for everyone.

Cheers,
Matthias

Thanks Matthias. Did you ever compare any of the gear with Exakt based systems? Jeff

(2017-09-20 17:37)Briain Wrote:  
(2017-09-20 09:43)DavidHB Wrote:  Like golke, I would really like to know whether the OP is currently using 212s or 242s...

Hi David

Actually, I'm sure that Sondek would not mind if I cleared that little mystery up on his behalf; I recently bought his very fine looking maple 212's and they now happily reside in my bedroom (and being fed by a KDS/0 and 2250/D, they are playing tunes very, very, very nicely).

[Image: attachment.php?aid=11205]


As my existing (darker finished) 212s didn't match my oak stands very well, I sold them to a friend (so it was also part of a nefarious 212 swapping party) and from the feedback that I have received (in other words, he is still talking to me; just) they are now also playing tunes very nicely (again, fed by a 2250/D) so feet are also tapping in yet another part of Scotland.

My next trick will be to quad-wire them (I have just procured enough K20 for same) then to stuff socks into the ports (washed ones) and add a DSP and a sub (the light oak version of this one being high on my potential list) but I have to watch that it doesn't end up sounding more musical (and more fun to listen to) than my 350A system; from past experience (212s and a 345) I know that that a 2250/D and 212s can sound astonishingly foot tapping good when well integrated (ports blocked) with a sub and I am looking forward to experimenting with same (and to hearing the final results, of course).

Bri Smile

Briain, those are really pretty with the maple finish and black arrays. Really pretty. Didn't you mention before that the 2250/d was fairly close in sound to the KCT/d (almost identical design absent the aluminum chasis)? Cool! Jeff

KDSM/1, KLP12, Exakt/k Dorik Stands, Exaktbox Sub, 212s v.1, 221, Audience AR6
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2017-09-20, 19:02
Post: #33
RE: Solos passive -> Exakt Akudorik?
Thanks Matthias. A good story well told.

I do believe that you found the answer that was right for you. I agree about the mid-bass as being the central part of the mix. (It's not for nothing that the tenor part was so named, it being, in much early music, the part that holds the tune). Perhaps that's part of the reason why I did not go from 109s to Akudoriks (which might have been the obvious upgrade), but to Akubariks.

It's also good to have your confirmation that the Solos and 242s go together so well, leaving the 226 to do the job it was designed to do in conjunction with the 242s. The Akubariks go a good deal deeper than the 242s, and from my recent demo (reported elsewhere), the 226s don't add much of use to an Akubarik system. I leave Briain to comment on the issues you had using two sub-woofers.

If you get an opportunity to hear, say, an Akubarik Exakt system, it would be interesting to know how you think it compares with what you have. I love what I have now, but I suspect that your system can hold its own in some very good company.

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
Second system: Kiko
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2017-09-20, 21:19 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-20 21:39 by Briain.)
Post: #34
RE: Solos passive -> Exakt Akudorik?
(2017-09-20 18:45)Jeff R Wrote:  Briain, those are really pretty with the maple finish and black arrays. Really pretty. Didn't you mention before that the 2250/d was fairly close in sound to the KCT/d (almost identical design absent the aluminum chasis)? Cool! Jeff

Hi

Yes, they look fabulous atop these oak stands!

The 2250 audio stages are the same as the original Klimax Twin (the pre-Chakra version) so 'only' the power supply and case were different. In fact, the title box at the bottom right of the drawings for the 2250 circuit diagram even claim it to be an 'AVKLIMAX'. Of course, I say 'only' the power supply was different, but as we all know, the power supply is an absolutely critical aspect of the overall amplifier circuit, and as I have written before, when I got my first 2250 I was quite concerned that it sounded pretty nice, but that it also sounded rather boring. Within 24 hours of it arriving, it had its Dynamik fitted and that totally transformed it into being an absolutely stunning sounding amplifier (the difference was musically quite profound). It would almost be quite interesting to hear an original Klimax Twin (pre-Chakra and pre-Dynamik) against a Dynamik equipped 2250, but my guess (for that is all that it could be; it's been a very long time since I heard an original Klimax Twin) would be that the 2250 with Dynamik might even win that contest.

As you can likely by now tell, I am somewhat of a 2250/D fanboy! Big Grin

Bri

KDS/1 (music) + ADSM (AV) -> KK/1 -> 350A + miniDSP time & phase aligned 345 rear sub
KDS Renew -> Homebrew fixed attenuator -> 2250/D -> 212 and Sizmik front sub (bedroom)
MDSI -> 104C (awaiting installation in my kitchen)
MDSI -> Shahinian Arc (installed at my mum's house)
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2017-09-20, 21:25
Post: #35
RE: Solos passive -> Exakt Akudorik?
From personal experience, I can say that the Chakra/D version of the Twin is a lot better than the 2250/D. It would be interesting to hear the original version of the Twin for comparison though, and I suspect Briain’s feelings are correct (of course - when is he ever wrong?)...

Mick

LP12SE * KDS/3 * KK/1/D * Solos/1/D * Akubarik/P
MDSM/3 * Majik 109
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2017-09-20, 21:32
Post: #36
RE: Solos passive -> Exakt Akudorik?
(2017-09-20 21:25)mickc Wrote:  ...(of course - when is he ever wrong?)...

At least 10 times daily and near-continuously over the weekends! Big Grin

KDS/1 (music) + ADSM (AV) -> KK/1 -> 350A + miniDSP time & phase aligned 345 rear sub
KDS Renew -> Homebrew fixed attenuator -> 2250/D -> 212 and Sizmik front sub (bedroom)
MDSI -> 104C (awaiting installation in my kitchen)
MDSI -> Shahinian Arc (installed at my mum's house)
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2017-09-20, 22:03
Post: #37
RE: Solos passive -> Exakt Akudorik?
(2017-09-20 17:37)Briain Wrote:  
(2017-09-20 09:43)DavidHB Wrote:  Like golke, I would really like to know whether the OP is currently using 212s or 242s...

Hi David

Actually, I'm sure that Sondek would not mind if I cleared that little mystery up on his behalf; I recently bought his very fine looking maple 212's and they now happily reside in my bedroom (and being fed by a KDS/0 and 2250/D, they are playing tunes very, very, very nicely).

[Image: attachment.php?aid=11205]


As my existing (darker finished) 212s didn't match my oak stands very well, I sold them to a friend (so it was also part of a nefarious 212 swapping party) and from the feedback that I have received (in other words, he is still talking to me; just) they are now also playing tunes very nicely (again, fed by a 2250/D) so feet are also tapping in yet another part of Scotland.

My next trick will be to quad-wire them (I have just procured enough K20 for same) then to stuff socks into the ports (washed ones) and add a DSP and a sub (the light oak version of this one being high on my potential list) but I have to watch that it doesn't end up sounding more musical (and more fun to listen to) than my 350A system; from past experience (212s and a 345) I know that that a 2250/D and 212s can sound astonishingly foot tapping good when well integrated (ports blocked) with a sub and I am looking forward to experimenting with same (and to hearing the final results, of course).

Bri Smile

They look really nice, Bri! I'm a big fan of the black 3K arrays - my oak Akubariks have them:-

[Image: 13120036_10207629279023664_9008392196838...hcfnae.jpg]


Mick

LP12SE * KDS/3 * KK/1/D * Solos/1/D * Akubarik/P
MDSM/3 * Majik 109
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2017-09-20, 22:34
Post: #38
RE: Solos passive -> Exakt Akudorik?
As a side aspect to Sondek's revelation and the overall discussions I am still wondering how the initial post could be written contentwise with a sig that was showing a system in the future of the OP. Or is it me?

KK/1/D, KDS/3, 2xKCTs/D into B&W 803 D3, Oppo 105, QNAP 439 Pro II
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2017-09-20, 22:42
Post: #39
RE: Solos passive -> Exakt Akudorik?
(2017-09-20 22:34)golke53 Wrote:  As a side aspect to Sondek's revelation and the overall discussions I am still wondering how the initial post could be written contentwise with a sig that was showing a system in the future of the OP. Or is it me?

Signatures are always 'current', even in historic posts. ie the forum doesn't store the signature along with a post, it just has a placeholder that says 'put the signature here', so on an old post the current signature appears when re-read. I agree it's potentially very confusing but it's a feature of the forum software and I don't think Linn can control how it works.

ADs/2 -> Klimax Exaktbox/1 -> Silvers -> 2xKCT/D -> K200 -> Ninka
Exaktbox Sub - BK Sub
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2017-09-21, 09:22
Post: #40
RE: Solos passive -> Exakt Akudorik?
Thank you phino. Just spot on. I went back to some of my own stone-age posts in Kustomizing Keltiks and found them reading my current sig. Really confusing, takes the old posts out of context. But its what it is.

KK/1/D, KDS/3, 2xKCTs/D into B&W 803 D3, Oppo 105, QNAP 439 Pro II
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