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The Highly Improbable SPACE Optimization Tour De Europe
2016-11-12, 02:59 (This post was last modified: 2016-11-12 05:14 by Paulssurround.)
Post: #1
The Highly Improbable SPACE Optimization Tour De Europe
What a week this has been.

First we had the highly improbable election of Donald Trump and now the unlikely invasion of Europe by a man who claims to be here from SPACE. Or was that, here for SPACE.

Nevertheless, I have made it over to the sunny shores of England and plan to visit 23 hapless souls, to tune up their SPACE optimization.

The first visit occurred last night, at ukandrew's, where I was promptly given a laptop with access to his Konfig settings, the remote kontrol to his stereo, an iPad, with access to his tunes, a lovely dinner with his friends and family that just happened to drop by and some wine donated by Peter57. Big Grin

Andrew's newly Exakted 350's were a far cry better than his passive 350's driven by a twin and a KK from my last visit.

We listened to some tunes and then, decided to give a go at SPACE optimization.

I would say the results were more than worth the trip over.

We created a new SPACE profile that ignored all the usual rules, and then pressed "Apply"

With wild abandon, SPACE did its thing and the tunes were flowing like they had never before.

We just have to figure out how to get the cat to remove its grip from the ceiling with its claws? Tongue

Another visit is scheduled to Ukandrew's today, with nrwatson dropping by to say hello.

Exakt Surround 5.0:
Katalyst Akubariks, AEDSM, Akurate Exaktbox 6/4200 for 225 Centre, Majik Exaktbox I for 212 Surrounds, OPPO 105 on StillPoints.
Power: Environmental Potentials 2460, Shunyata Triton, Zitron Cobras, Alpha Digitals
Room Acoustics: SPACE, SubDude HT's, Acoustic Panels
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2016-11-12, 06:54
Post: #2
RE: The Highly Improbable SPACE Optimization Tour De Europe
Hapless souls? I had to look that up, but I don't know if it applies to me.
Discuss whether I had to look up 'hapless', 'soul' or the both of them. Bonus points will be awarded if you can exclude Donald Trump.
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2016-11-12, 08:32
Post: #3
RE: The Highly Improbable SPACE Optimization Tour De Europe
Hi Spaceman,
Great to hear you arrived safely. I see from the time stamps that you are suffering jet lag as you didn't sleep last nightRolleyes

Maybe you should have drunk some wine?Big Grin , have a lie in this morning, skip the hotel breakfast.

Well, the great Space Oddessy has begun.......23 lucky people , see you in December budSmile

Avalon

Akurate Exakt DSM, Akurate Exaktbox 10, two Akurate 4200 power amps, klimax chakra twin(Dk), Akubarik High Gloss Rosewood speakers,nordost Tyr, ipad 2 & KazooServer Minimserver and Asset server running on a Qnap 251, backed up to remote Qnap 231. Sonos for multiroom. SPACED OUT
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2016-11-12, 08:40
Post: #4
RE: The Highly Improbable SPACE Optimization Tour De Europe
(2016-11-12 06:54)Tin Wrote:  Hapless souls? I had to look that up, but I don't know if it applies to me.
Discuss whether I had to look up 'hapless', 'soul' or the both of them. Bonus points will be awarded if you can exclude Donald Trump.


Hi Tin,

You are correct.

I meant to say Linn owners looking for better luck in setting up SPACE optimization.

Big Grin
(2016-11-12 08:32)avalon Wrote:  Hi Spaceman,
Great to hear you arrived safely. I see from the time stamps that you are suffering jet lag as you didn't sleep last nightRolleyes

Maybe you should have drunk some wine?Big Grin , have a lie in this morning, skip the hotel breakfast.

Well, the great Space Oddessy has begun.......23 lucky people , see you in December budSmile

Avalon

Thanks Avalon, I look forward to seeing you in a few weeks.

The flight was smooth and quick.

Last night was fun at Andrews.

Yes, I did not get much sleep last night.

Exakt Surround 5.0:
Katalyst Akubariks, AEDSM, Akurate Exaktbox 6/4200 for 225 Centre, Majik Exaktbox I for 212 Surrounds, OPPO 105 on StillPoints.
Power: Environmental Potentials 2460, Shunyata Triton, Zitron Cobras, Alpha Digitals
Room Acoustics: SPACE, SubDude HT's, Acoustic Panels
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2016-11-12, 11:09 (This post was last modified: 2016-11-12 11:33 by ukandrewf.)
Post: #5
RE: The Highly Improbable SPACE Optimization Tour De Europe
Big thanks to paul for coming over last night to tune my space optimisation.

I don't think I'd changed it much since setting up with passive system as described- that was a mistake. I'd assumed the room is the same the speakers are physically the same but clearly exakt perhaps handles the room better.

Paul's tweaks did I think add a lot. Before we could describe the system as pedestrian it sound great, had everything right but was missing a little something in hindsight. Paul's tweaks have made the system more of a dirt bike in comparison! Following music like a mountain trail - there is nowhere it cannot master.

We also did and a/b comparison of silent mounts from chord(small isolators metal pucks - Canadian reference) which go under the speaker spikes. I'd heard them twice in demo and liked both times. I'd done a/b before with sunbeamgls and peter57m and they both preferred without the pucks. I didn't. It seemed night and day to me. The sound had more punch more clarity, notes more defined and visceroll with the silent mounts. I began to think I was loosing my mind/hearing it seemed so clear to me. Normally sunbeamgls, peter57m and I agree on what we hear. Anyway was relieved when paul arrived and confirmed he also preferred with the silent mounts and confirmed he could hear what I was hearing (I didn't tell him ahead of time what any of us thought). He said without the sound was muddier. We used elbow honey sun as our test track. Without the band discussion sounded like it I was hearing them through a doorway into another room - while with I was in the same room. Also those starting notes after the band discussion sounded so real and defined you could reach out and touch them. So very grateful for paul's confirmation of my sanity.

Should add that you lucky ppl have a lot to look forward to if my experience of paul's tweak is anything to go by.

Music Room: Ekdsm, Oppo 105d, e350a, exaktbox sub 345, 340, 2100/212 (rear). Hutter Rack. Townshend isolation bars.
Family Room: SekritDS, 2xNinka, Sizmik, Trikan.
Garden: B&W WM5 (weather proof)
My name is Andrew.. I'm an addikt.
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2016-11-12, 11:25
Post: #6
RE: The Highly Improbable SPACE Optimization Tour De Europe
(2016-11-12 08:40)Paulssurround Wrote:  The flight was smooth and quick.

Hello Paul,

Welcome in Europe!

Looking forward to welcome you in Komri heaven Big Grin

(2016-11-12 02:59)Paulssurround Wrote:  ... and plan to visit 23 hapless souls, to tune up their SPACE optimization.

May be resp. hopefully after your visit a little bit more happy than before Wink

Enjoy your trip Smile

Best regards
Frank

KDSM/1, Twins (D), Katalyst Komris, Roon
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2016-11-12, 11:57
Post: #7
RE: The Highly Improbable SPACE Optimization Tour De Europe
Hi Paul

Good to hear you arrived safely and pleased that you have many more systems to tinker with before you get to Scotland.

This is shaping up to be one of the most popular Threads on the Forum and it would be helpful if you could provide some details of what you tweak in each system and the impact it had? Could become a Sticky and an important source of information on Space Optimisation.

Take care my friend and looking forward to seeing you and the Premier Inn gang in December. Big Grin

Unidisk SC | Majik LP12 | Trampolin 2 | Lingo 3.
Akurate DSM | Akurate Exaktbox 10 | 2 x Akurate 4200/1 | Exakt dual-mono Keilidhs
Raspberry Pi 2 Model B | IQAudio Pi-DAC+ | Audiolab 8000A | AR28s.
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2016-11-12, 12:43 (This post was last modified: 2016-11-12 14:21 by Paulssurround.)
Post: #8
RE: The Highly Improbable SPACE Optimization Tour De Europe
Thank you Frank for the warm welcome.

I look forward to visiting Komri heaven in a couple of weeks. Big Grin


Last night and this morning I am visiting ukandrew's home listening to his Exakted 350's.

The room is approximately 4.5 meters wide by 4.0 meters deep and also serves as his home theatre. There are 2 small windows on the from wall, just behind and above the 350's, with a fireplace in between.

In addition, there is a large window on the left wall. The room is fully carpeted.

I had helped Andrew set up SPACE optimization in his home just over a year ago, when he still had passive 350's driven by a twin and Klimax Kontrol. Sound quality was very very nice, and highly musical.

Fast forward one year, and I get an opportunity to listen to his system again.

There have been many improvements to Andrew's system in the last year, with cable upgrades, new dedicated mains spur, floor vibration control pucks, and the upgrade to Exakt. It sounded much better than I remember, but just seemed a bit too polite.

Compared to my system at home, bass was rolled off, as there was too much bass last year, so we used a slight bass shelf. The highs were also rolled off compared to what I remember.

Time to get to work on SPACE optimization.

I decided to go with a new approach to SPACE optimization and created two new custom room modes, while eliminating room mode 1 at 43 Hz by setting it to zero gain.

I created a custom room mode at 21 Hz and at 63 Hz and played with gain and octave width. The calculated room mode 2 gain at 71 Hz were adjusted but remained.

The sound quality improvements were stunning to my ears.

The bass is now deeper and more musical. Yet it is very easy to carry on a conversation in the room at loud volume, without raising your voice. The mids and highs are greatly improved, with awesome dynamics, detail, transparency and musicality. There is no hint of harshness at all across the music spectrum, and all quite listenable.

We have tackled the extraneous bass that was overwhelming the room and muddying the detail and musicality.

Thanks to Linnrd for his suggestions on this new approach.

It has been a well worthwhile visit to the ukandrew's household.

Thank you Andrew for your kindness and hospitality. Big Grin

(2016-11-12 11:57)Donald Wrote:  Hi Paul

Good to hear you arrived safely and pleased that you have many more systems to tinker with before you get to Scotland.

This is shaping up to be one of the most popular Threads on the Forum and it would be helpful if you could provide some details of what you tweak in each system and the impact it had? Could become a Sticky and an important source of information on Space Optimisation.

Take care my friend and looking forward to seeing you and the Premier Inn gang in December. Big Grin

Hi Donald,

You are not the first to suggest that. Thank you.

I have just incorporated this into my previous post.

I look forward to see you in Glasgow!!!

Exakt Surround 5.0:
Katalyst Akubariks, AEDSM, Akurate Exaktbox 6/4200 for 225 Centre, Majik Exaktbox I for 212 Surrounds, OPPO 105 on StillPoints.
Power: Environmental Potentials 2460, Shunyata Triton, Zitron Cobras, Alpha Digitals
Room Acoustics: SPACE, SubDude HT's, Acoustic Panels
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2016-11-12, 14:29
Post: #9
RE: The Highly Improbable SPACE Optimization Tour De Europe
(2016-11-12 02:59)Paulssurround Wrote:  What a week this has been.

First we had the highly improbable election of Donald Trump and now the unlikely invasion of Europe by a man who claims to be here from SPACE. Or was that, here for SPACE.

Nevertheless, I have made it over to the sunny shores of England and plan to visit 23 hapless souls, to tune up their SPACE optimization.

The first visit occurred last night, at ukandrew's, where I was promptly given a laptop with access to his Konfig settings, the remote kontrol to his stereo, an iPad, with access to his tunes, a lovely dinner with his friends and family that just happened to drop by and some wine donated by Peter57. Big Grin

Andrew's newly Exakted 350's were a far cry better than his passive 350's driven by a twin and a KK from my last visit.

We listened to some tunes and then, decided to give a go at SPACE optimization.

I would say the results were more than worth the trip over.

We created a new SPACE profile that ignored all the usual rules, and then pressed "Apply"


With wild abandon, SPACE did its thing and the tunes were flowing like they had never before.

We just have to figure out how to get the cat to remove its grip from the ceiling with its claws? Tongue

Another visit is scheduled to Ukandrew's today, with nrwatson dropping by to say hello.

Paul I didn't know you were that large but sure we could find some space on our little island for you
Welcome

Exakt 5.1
Klimax Exakt 350 Katalyst Melco N1Z anniversary Melodik sub Akurate 225 centre Akurate 4200 Akurate Exactbox 6 Akudorik Exakt Oppo UDP-205
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2016-11-13, 11:22
Post: #10
RE: The Highly Improbable SPACE Optimization Tour De Europe
(2016-11-12 14:29)nrwatson Wrote:  
(2016-11-12 02:59)Paulssurround Wrote:  What a week this has been.

First we had the highly improbable election of Donald Trump and now the unlikely invasion of Europe by a man who claims to be here from SPACE. Or was that, here for SPACE.

Nevertheless, I have made it over to the sunny shores of England and plan to visit 23 hapless souls, to tune up their SPACE optimization.

The first visit occurred last night, at ukandrew's, where I was promptly given a laptop with access to his Konfig settings, the remote kontrol to his stereo, an iPad, with access to his tunes, a lovely dinner with his friends and family that just happened to drop by and some wine donated by Peter57. Big Grin

Andrew's newly Exakted 350's were a far cry better than his passive 350's driven by a twin and a KK from my last visit.

We listened to some tunes and then, decided to give a go at SPACE optimization.

I would say the results were more than worth the trip over.

We created a new SPACE profile that ignored all the usual rules, and then pressed "Apply"


With wild abandon, SPACE did its thing and the tunes were flowing like they had never before.

We just have to figure out how to get the cat to remove its grip from the ceiling with its claws? Tongue

Another visit is scheduled to Ukandrew's today, with nrwatson dropping by to say hello.

Paul I didn't know you were that large but sure we could find some space on our little island for you
Welcome

Only my ego is large. Rolleyes


I have had the great pleasure of visiting Hashluck in Oxfordshire, since yesterday afternoon.

He has a beautiful Linn system consisting of a KEDSM, Klimax Exakt box driving 4200's into a pair of Keilidhs, as well as a nicely optioned LP-12.

The room is approximately 3 meters by almost 3 meters, with a window on the left wall, a door on the front wall, and a set of French doors on the right wall.

Sound quality was very nice indeed with 2 Linn Konfig calculated room modes.

Room mode 1 was calculated at 56.77 Hz , gain of -25.77, and a bandwidth of 0.106828.

Room mode 2 was calculated at 73.5 Hz with a gain of -13.28 and bandwidth of 0.08250.

Playing many tracks there were no big issues, but a number of tracks the midrange appeared to be overwhelmed by some excessive bass that would break up at higher volumes.

We tried adjusting SPACE optimization to accommodate these challenging tracks, but it was not an easy process, having spent many hours of adjusting.

Linn calculated room mode 1 was set to a gain of 0.0. The reason will be explained later.

The best solution initially was to create 2 new custom filters.

We created a custom filter 1 at 28 Hz, with a gain of -19.63. That did a pretty respectable job of providing exceptionally clear and coherent midrange and highs, detail and transparency.

The Keilidh's came alive in a way that shocked and awed both of us, but this was at the expense of the bass on those challenging tracks.

The most difficult tracks remained a challenge in terms do bass.

We decided to map out frequencies from 30-90 Hz using SPACE tones and confirmed the room modes calculated by Konfig were correct.

Custom room filter 2 was at 56 Hz as calculated by Konfig, but creating the custom filter allowed us to narrow the bandwidth.

We retained room mode 2, but played with the gain, now at -5.84. All said and done, it was a big improvement over the initial settings, but the bass issue remained for some of the bass heavy tracks.

I could have easily lived with those settings, but Hashluck and I thought we could do better.

I went to sleep and woke up with a few ideas.

We had breakfast, with the music warming up, while I presented my ideas.

We decided to measure the room frequencies using an app on my iPhone and nothing untoward jumped out at us.

We had created a custom room mode at 28 Hz, but I thought, okay, the Keilidh's don't produce bass liked Akubariks or 350's, or so I thought. Let's move the custom room mode up towards 50 Hz.

We tried variations and settled on moving the custom filter to 30.5 Hz.

This was exceptional!!!

We have been playing many bass heavy tracks at very loud volumes and the Keilidh's have been performing like they were 350's. Just don't tell them they can't do this. Tongue

Sound quality is absolutely stellar and the Keilidh's have not missed a beat.

I will let Hashluck post on his impressions of the process and the sound quality of his Exakted Keilidh's. Big Grin

Exakt Surround 5.0:
Katalyst Akubariks, AEDSM, Akurate Exaktbox 6/4200 for 225 Centre, Majik Exaktbox I for 212 Surrounds, OPPO 105 on StillPoints.
Power: Environmental Potentials 2460, Shunyata Triton, Zitron Cobras, Alpha Digitals
Room Acoustics: SPACE, SubDude HT's, Acoustic Panels
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