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Akkubariks with Klimax-Level Electronics
2017-03-20, 19:05
Post: #1
Akkubariks with Klimax-Level Electronics
I like the Akkubriks a lot and to be perfectly frank, I used to like them more than the 350s. However, I caveat that this impression was based on comparing it to an „old“ 350A without Exakt let alone Katalyst.

Nevertheless, I wonder how much more one could get out of the Akkubariks by driving them with Klimax-Level gear (Klimax Exaktboxes and Amps). Specifically, I would think that a stronger amp could make the lower Bass a bit more punchy.

Have any of you heard such set-up? How does it compare to 350A? Curious to get your impressions....

Raimund
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2017-03-20, 20:47
Post: #2
RE: Akkubariks with Klimax-Level Electronics
I haven't heard the particular combination you refer to, but they already sound better with external Exakt at Akurate level than the built-in Exakt, so I expect they would respond even better to Klimax gear. After all, there are Keilidhs on here that benefit from Klimax Exakt...

Main: AK/0/D; AEDSM; C-Stream AExaktbox10; Silvers 2x A4200/1; K400 NSL Exakt dual-mono PMC Twenty.26; Twenty.C; Blacks AV5125 PMC Twenty.21
Playroom: SBT; V-DAC1; Cyrus6; M773e
Garage: SBT/Rega DAC; Arcam AVR100; 2x AV5125; Aktiv Ninkas, Trikan, AVSeKretan
www.audiophilemusings.co.uk
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2017-03-20, 22:53 (This post was last modified: 2017-03-20 22:54 by DavidHB.)
Post: #3
RE: Akkubariks with Klimax-Level Electronics
I have heard the Akubariks both passive with a Klimax Twin and with a pair of Klimax Exaktboxes (albeit with a mix of Akurate and Majik amplification). In both cases, especially with the Exakt setup, there was a noticeable improvement in clarity and tonal balance, but to my ears it was not night and day. Others feel diifferently, and are prepared to stand the fairly eye-watering price differential.

From my experience, Exakt does somewhat change the position of the amplifier in the hierarchy of requirements. With each channel only driving a single transducer, ahd no power-sapping passive crossover to get in the way, even the Majik 100wpc amplifiers seem to do well in the Exakt context. The more expensive models do better yet of course, but not (I think) to the extent that they will justify their extra cost to every prospective purchaser.

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5 >] ADSM/1 > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
Second system: Kiko
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2017-03-22, 07:50 (This post was last modified: 2017-03-22 07:51 by Raymond.)
Post: #4
RE: Akkubariks with Klimax-Level Electronics
Thanks for your replies. How would you rate the externally amplified Akkubariks versus 350A (integrated)?
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2017-03-22, 08:22
Post: #5
RE: Akkubariks with Klimax-Level Electronics
(2017-03-22 07:50)Raymond Wrote:  Thanks for your replies. How would you rate the externally amplified Akkubariks versus 350A (integrated)?

In what configuration? Personally, IMHO etc. etc. 350s only work properly with Exakt. So without Exakt, Akubarik is my preference, with Exakt, its more about money and space but for the same money I'd still go external Klimax Exaktbox (Katalyst I suspect, but I haven't heard it yet) and external Klimax amplifcation into the Akubariks over 350. FYI - integrated Exakt / amplified 350s don't have the same level of DAC nor amplification as external Klimax equipment.

Of course, 350 with all up Klimax Exakt Katalyst and Solos will be stunning, but you might need to sell your house, then they'd get wet when it rained Smile

Main: AK/0/D; AEDSM; C-Stream AExaktbox10; Silvers 2x A4200/1; K400 NSL Exakt dual-mono PMC Twenty.26; Twenty.C; Blacks AV5125 PMC Twenty.21
Playroom: SBT; V-DAC1; Cyrus6; M773e
Garage: SBT/Rega DAC; Arcam AVR100; 2x AV5125; Aktiv Ninkas, Trikan, AVSeKretan
www.audiophilemusings.co.uk
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2017-03-22, 09:59
Post: #6
RE: Akkubariks with Klimax-Level Electronics
(2017-03-20 19:05)Raymond Wrote:  ... I wonder how much more one could get out of the Akkubariks by driving them with Klimax-Level gear (Klimax Exaktboxes and Amps). Specifically, I would think that a stronger amp could make the lower Bass a bit more punchy.

Have any of you heard such set-up? How does it compare to 350A? Curious to get your impressions....

It would be an interesting comparison although I suspect the cost of Akubariks with external klimax electronics will very quickly exceed the cost a pair of Exakt 350's, by some margin!

Mac-mini/Audirvana/Hugo -> KK/1/D -> 4200/1 -> Aktiv Katans
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2017-03-22, 12:00
Post: #7
RE: Akkubariks with Klimax-Level Electronics
Just done some very quick calculations ... £45K (Exakt 350's) vs £70k for Akubariks with Klimax Exaktbox's and twins. With Solo's, that would work out at around £120k.

Mac-mini/Audirvana/Hugo -> KK/1/D -> 4200/1 -> Aktiv Katans
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2017-03-22, 15:04 (This post was last modified: 2017-03-22 15:14 by sunbeamgls.)
Post: #8
RE: Akkubariks with Klimax-Level Electronics
Akubarik £9.5k
2x Klimax Exaktbox £25k
2x A4200/1 £11k
1x A2200/1 £3.6k

Total £50k

Same level of amps but better Exaktbox which is more a source first approach, so it boils down to which you prefer the sound of. Akubarik option allows improvement in the amps later or a move to passive 350s, then improve the amps later.

Choices, choices Smile

Main: AK/0/D; AEDSM; C-Stream AExaktbox10; Silvers 2x A4200/1; K400 NSL Exakt dual-mono PMC Twenty.26; Twenty.C; Blacks AV5125 PMC Twenty.21
Playroom: SBT; V-DAC1; Cyrus6; M773e
Garage: SBT/Rega DAC; Arcam AVR100; 2x AV5125; Aktiv Ninkas, Trikan, AVSeKretan
www.audiophilemusings.co.uk
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2017-03-22, 17:02
Post: #9
RE: Akkubariks with Klimax-Level Electronics
(2017-03-22 08:22)sunbeamgls Wrote:  
(2017-03-22 07:50)Raymond Wrote:  Thanks for your replies. How would you rate the externally amplified Akkubariks versus 350A (integrated)?

In what configuration? Personally, IMHO etc. etc. 350s only work properly with Exakt. So without Exakt, Akubarik is my preference, with Exakt, its more about money and space but for the same money I'd still go external Klimax Exaktbox (Katalyst I suspect, but I haven't heard it yet) and external Klimax amplifcation into the Akubariks over 350. FYI - integrated Exakt / amplified 350s don't have the same level of DAC nor amplification as external Klimax equipment.

I can understand why folks say that, but it depends on a number of things, not least of which are your room size and also how you are looking for from a system. Obviously, musicality and detail are key (if you don't tap you foot to it, it's not worth listening to; that's why we all own Linn systems) but whilst some folks are entirely happy with only these aspects being met (which is just fine, for them) I am not. To me, a good system needs to also shift lots of air at low frequencies, or in other words, replicate the power of what you hear when listening to a rock band in a pub (for example) and in a big room, 'small' speakers simply cannot do that, so (forgetting the sub for a moment) whilst I do get what makes Exakt Akudoriks or Akubariks sound utterly stunning, I'd not swap them for my 350As. Of course, I've yet to hear a set of Akubariks with a pair of Exakt subs; I suspect that might also sound rather fine.

As to the folks who criticise the sound of the 350A, a long while back, I heard 350P with Solo amplifiers and they were stunningly good. Mine were far short of that, but now knowing what I wanted to hear (and what 350s should could like) when I got home I spent ages playing with my own 350A set up (positioning them and a minor tweak to the bass levels) and eventually, I achieved something not too far short of the sound I now knew 350s could make (even though it was in a very challenging room and pre-SO days) and although I still reckon that the Solo+350A system was perhaps a little more musical than my 350P system, I now know that a 350A system can sound stunning, but as I say, only if they are set up correctly.

On that note, over the years I have had a good few visitors who have heard 350s (both A and P) at Linn dealerships and told me that they sounded really crap, and they have then been quite astonished to hear them when set up properly (and that was all before the days of Sound Optimisation)! Of course, as with all full range speakers, it is actually very difficult to get them working optimally, but at least these days, we now have Linn's SO and that is a massively fabulous tool to help achieving a decent sound from a full range system.

Fast forward a few years from that 350P+Solo demonstration (and another house) and I now I live in a really big room, so I am now running 350As with a rear-corner time aligned 345 sub (that part being achieved by feeding it with a miniDSP) and after an awful lot of faffing about (including with the DSP settings and with Sound Optimisation), I've now got a sound that - on some tracks - almost puts me in mind of hearing a live band in a small venue; that's something that requires a big system (as in lots of bass units) that can shift lots of air at low frequencies. Okay, it isn't as 'refined' as an Exakt system and smaller speakers, but I do love the presentation of it (which as I say, also really matters to me; particularly so when using it for AV work); the low bass as it just extends down and down (many other systems that I've heard sound terrific, but to me, they just have something missing).

Of course, I used to have active PMS Isobariks (the fridge sized ones, not these tiny little modern chaps) then I had Keltiks, so anything without that sort of low bass capability just sounds like a bookshelf speaker, to me! Tongue

So in summary, there is no correct answer to the question of which 'sounds' better; some will love an Exakt system and smaller speakers (and if they heard my system, likely they'd think it was a mess; perhaps they'd even throw-up) whilst others - like myself - would simply not bother using a system that lacks a realistic weight at the lowest frequencies, no matter how musical it sounded. So I guess the answer is that it's what sounds better to the customer that counts.

Quote:Of course, 350 with all up Klimax Exakt Katalyst and Solos will be stunning, but you might need to sell your house, then they'd get wet when it rained Smile

Very true, but to get to where I now am, I already had to sell my roof tiles; it's all very nice in summer (and having no roof does wonders for the bass) but I do have to use 4 umbrellas (one nailed to each 350A, one nailed to the sub and another for myself).

Basshead McBri Big Grin

KDS/1 (music) + ADSM (AV) -> KK/1 -> 350A (and a miniDSP -> 345 time aligned rear-corner sub)
Bedroom: KDS/0 -> Lejonklou Kikkin -> 2250/D -> 212
Kitchen (soon; the wiring's done and the kit is in stock): MDSI -> 104C
Also: MDSI -> Shahinian Arc (now installed at my mum's house)
Sonos (nah; just kidding)! :-)
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