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Linn LP12 Klimax review from What hifi
Yesterday, 21:36 (This post was last modified: Yesterday 21:42 by Glyn Ruck.)
Post: #21
RE: Linn LP12 Klimax review from What hifi
(Yesterday 21:05)LD100 Wrote:  Everybody's right! Smile

In their room, with their type of speakers with their stereo systems everyone gets their best sound with their version of the LP12.

I always notice when people say that a different version LP12 from the one they operate can't sound as good are always using a different speaker or amplifier, not to mention the room acoustics which can't be the same.

The fact that I have been listening to my 1978 never upgraded LP12 for almost 40 years has an effect on my perception that it sounds great.

What would I think of the sound of a brand spanking new top flight LP12...I'm certain I would notice the difference immediately. Would I want to keep it in my system?...probably, but not necessarily guaranteed.
Why, I think because electrostatic and ribbon speakers seem to showcase some of the traits of the older version of the LP12.

If anything ever breaks on my LP12 I may have to upgrade sometime, but I think I'll enjoy what I have now. I do believe I got my money's worth on this equipment purchase. Wink

Absolutely! My room was purpose built to get the best out of Maggies. I'll bet at the Klimax price you would at least consider some other turntables. I would certainly consider some of the better Clearaudio's
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Yesterday, 21:39
Post: #22
RE: Linn LP12 Klimax review from What hifi
(Yesterday 21:25)Glyn Ruck Wrote:  
(Yesterday 20:37)HBerg Wrote:  
(Yesterday 19:55)Glyn Ruck Wrote:  
(Yesterday 18:39)HBerg Wrote:  
(Yesterday 17:56)Glyn Ruck Wrote:  Yes!
With the same PSU, arm, cartridge?
If so, I guess the Keeled LP12 must have been set up poorly.
The Keel subchassis is much better than the steel subchassis in every possible way soundwise......if both are used correctly, i.e. correct set-up.

I have had 2 full Klimax decks in my system. One from a friend with the Etna & one from the importer with the Kandid. Only difference the cartridges. Both had the same signature. I did this to decide in my system how far to take upgrading my low hours Valhalla that has been in storage for over 20 years thanks to expat assignment. Decided, Cirkus, Ekos, all new hardware, springs, grommets, plinth, armboard, Mose Herc II gold PSU, Kiseki Purpleheart Boron. I like some of the heritage Linn sound & for me the Keel kills it & brings a whole lot of other turntables into play at the price (upward of 18,000 GBP in the UK!). It might be more accurate but is somewhat sterile. Other decks extract more info without becoming sterile. e.g. some of the Clearaudio's. I openly admit to liking sound slightly on the romantic & euphonic side of neutral but with air. The Maggie ribbon is a very revealing transducer. So I will be retaining some of the LP12 mid bloom without the pre Cirkus tubbiness in the midbass. A number here quietly agree with me in PM's. Hamstall being the only one to do so openly. Horses for courses.
I haven't heard the Lyra or Kandid cartridges and use the Benz LP in my no. 1 LP12 (see signature). The Benz is on the warm side, i.e. romantic and euphonic side of neutral as you put it, and in my system, and with my ears, there is no competition: The Keel is miles ahead of the steel subchassis.
I also use the SP-11, newly re-capped, and with NOS NIB Telefunken E88CC longlife tubes together with ML 27.5 into the ProAc Response 3.8 and it is also gives a pleasant sound, also at the romantic side.
But I have gone all the way through the LP12 hierarchy, with the exception of Armageddon from Lingo 1 instead of Lingo 2, and each step has been a step in the right direction.
I have also still a Valhalla, serviced from Class A, and it sounds extremely boring compared to both Armageddon and Radikal.
Try to upgrade your LP12 with a better PSU and subchassis/bearing and use a warmer cartridge and I think you will be surprised of how good sound you will achieve in your system.



My LP12 will never be my primary source & I won't give up on the Kiseki. It does things no other cartridge I've heard achieves. Nothing dull about my sound. But while I have a decent LP collection I have a huge collection on other formats from DVDA, SACD , CD, Laserdisc etc. I'm also fond of properly recorded surround where rear channels are used for ambience & run Maggie 3.6's bi-amped with tubes on mids & tops & SS on bass via Bryston 10B X Overs in a full surround array with 4 x Velodyne Servo Subs. I've heard the Keel on many flavours of LP12 & I simply don't like what it does.

My reference is live music in decent venues like the Musikverein & Sydney Opera House. As I have stated before I probably have different expectations.

Also stated before: "A number of years back I was able to compare some analogue master tapes at 30ips vs Ed Meitner's modified Philips SACD1000 drive & DAC6 vs a number of top turntables including Linn & the Clearaudio Statement that I love other than the price. The Meitner SACD playback sounded closer to the master tape than any of the others."
How do you know it is the Keel that make the sound sterile when you at the same time compare your Kiseki with Kandid and a Lyra cartridge. I think it is much more likely the new cartridges you perceive as sterile compared to your Kiseki.

-LP12/Keel/Radikal D/Ekos SE Mogami/sKale/Benz LP
-LP12/Keel/Armageddon/Ekos 2/Benz Ruby 2
-ReVox B77
-Audio Research SP-11 NOS Telefunken E88CC/Mark Levinson No. 27.5
-Spare pre: Audio Research SP-6B with NOS Telefunken ECC803S
-ProAc Response 3.8
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Yesterday, 21:47 (This post was last modified: Yesterday 21:50 by Glyn Ruck.)
Post: #23
RE: Linn LP12 Klimax review from What hifi
(Yesterday 21:39)HBerg Wrote:  
(Yesterday 21:25)Glyn Ruck Wrote:  
(Yesterday 20:37)HBerg Wrote:  
(Yesterday 19:55)Glyn Ruck Wrote:  
(Yesterday 18:39)HBerg Wrote:  With the same PSU, arm, cartridge?
If so, I guess the Keeled LP12 must have been set up poorly.
The Keel subchassis is much better than the steel subchassis in every possible way soundwise......if both are used correctly, i.e. correct set-up.

I have had 2 full Klimax decks in my system. One from a friend with the Etna & one from the importer with the Kandid. Only difference the cartridges. Both had the same signature. I did this to decide in my system how far to take upgrading my low hours Valhalla that has been in storage for over 20 years thanks to expat assignment. Decided, Cirkus, Ekos, all new hardware, springs, grommets, plinth, armboard, Mose Herc II gold PSU, Kiseki Purpleheart Boron. I like some of the heritage Linn sound & for me the Keel kills it & brings a whole lot of other turntables into play at the price (upward of 18,000 GBP in the UK!). It might be more accurate but is somewhat sterile. Other decks extract more info without becoming sterile. e.g. some of the Clearaudio's. I openly admit to liking sound slightly on the romantic & euphonic side of neutral but with air. The Maggie ribbon is a very revealing transducer. So I will be retaining some of the LP12 mid bloom without the pre Cirkus tubbiness in the midbass. A number here quietly agree with me in PM's. Hamstall being the only one to do so openly. Horses for courses.
I haven't heard the Lyra or Kandid cartridges and use the Benz LP in my no. 1 LP12 (see signature). The Benz is on the warm side, i.e. romantic and euphonic side of neutral as you put it, and in my system, and with my ears, there is no competition: The Keel is miles ahead of the steel subchassis.
I also use the SP-11, newly re-capped, and with NOS NIB Telefunken E88CC longlife tubes together with ML 27.5 into the ProAc Response 3.8 and it is also gives a pleasant sound, also at the romantic side.
But I have gone all the way through the LP12 hierarchy, with the exception of Armageddon from Lingo 1 instead of Lingo 2, and each step has been a step in the right direction.
I have also still a Valhalla, serviced from Class A, and it sounds extremely boring compared to both Armageddon and Radikal.
Try to upgrade your LP12 with a better PSU and subchassis/bearing and use a warmer cartridge and I think you will be surprised of how good sound you will achieve in your system.



My LP12 will never be my primary source & I won't give up on the Kiseki. It does things no other cartridge I've heard achieves. Nothing dull about my sound. But while I have a decent LP collection I have a huge collection on other formats from DVDA, SACD , CD, Laserdisc etc. I'm also fond of properly recorded surround where rear channels are used for ambience & run Maggie 3.6's bi-amped with tubes on mids & tops & SS on bass via Bryston 10B X Overs in a full surround array with 4 x Velodyne Servo Subs. I've heard the Keel on many flavours of LP12 & I simply don't like what it does.

My reference is live music in decent venues like the Musikverein & Sydney Opera House. As I have stated before I probably have different expectations.

Also stated before: "A number of years back I was able to compare some analogue master tapes at 30ips vs Ed Meitner's modified Philips SACD1000 drive & DAC6 vs a number of top turntables including Linn & the Clearaudio Statement that I love other than the price. The Meitner SACD playback sounded closer to the master tape than any of the others."
How do you know it is the Keel that make the sound sterile when you at the same time compare your Kiseki with Kandid and a Lyra cartridge. I think it is much more likely the new cartridges you perceive as sterile compared to your Kiseki.

I've been able to compare other LP12's pre & post Keel without any other changes at friends on the upgrade path with systems I know well. To my ears it always does the same things. Some people like those things. Some don't. I don't. It took a fair bit of listening over time to reach this conclusion.
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Today, 00:08 (This post was last modified: Today 00:21 by LD100.)
Post: #24
RE: Linn LP12 Klimax review from What hifi
(Yesterday 21:36)Glyn Ruck Wrote:  Absolutely! My room was purpose built to get the best out of Maggies. I'll bet at the Klimax price you would at least consider some other turntables. I would certainly consider some of the better Clearaudio's


That's the way to do it if you are able. I got lucky and when I saw this house 16 years ago the first thing that went through my mind was. "the acoustics are going to be great".
The vaulted ceiling, the bow window, the kitchen cabinets on the back wall all help to break up standing waves.
I just wish I had run 4 dedicated 20 amp lines for the stereo instead of 2. Smile

[Image: image.php?album_id=45&image_id=3...w=no_count]


And regarding OP and the magazine review, I thought it was a evenhanded and fair appraisal of the LP12...but I think I might be a little biased toward hearing good things about the LP12.Tongue

Original 1978 Fluted Afromosia LP12, Ekos 2, Lyra Kleos SL and lots of other stuff from the 70's that still work fine.
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