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Akudorik and Akubarik Exakt with Katalyst!
2017-05-27, 12:10 (This post was last modified: 2017-05-27 12:12 by DavidHB.)
Post: #21
RE: Akudorik and Akubarik Exakt with Katalyst!
(2017-05-26 10:21)Tin Wrote:  So it would be a £2500 upgrade with a potential huge effect. I can understand the attraction.

I am a bit more pessimistic than you, and have £3,000 as my 'hoped for' price. That also makes me a bit more pessimistic than timster in his pricing for the Exaktbox 6. Logically speaking.

The fly in the ointment is that all this is based on a pretty tall stack of unverified assumptions:
  • that there will be Exakt level Katalyst (Linn have said so, so it looks like a good bet, but ...);
  • that there will be a Katalyst version of the Exaktbox 10 (will it fit in the box?);
  • that our existing Exaktboxes will be upgradeable (we want it to be just a board change, but who knows?);
  • that the upgrade pricing will be more or less in line with Linn's previous practice (I'd be grateful if timster could start saying nice things about Linn marketing Smile).

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
Second system: Kiko
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2017-05-27, 12:21
Post: #22
RE: Akudorik and Akubarik Exakt with Katalyst!
(2017-05-27 12:10)DavidHB Wrote:  
(2017-05-26 10:21)Tin Wrote:  So it would be a £2500 upgrade with a potential huge effect. I can understand the attraction.

I am a bit more pessimistic than you, and have £3,000 as my 'hoped for' price. That also makes me a bit more pessimistic than timster in his pricing for the Exaktbox 6. Logically speaking.

The fly in the ointment is that all this is based on a pretty tall stack of unverified assumptions:
  • that there will be Exakt level Katalyst (Linn have said so, so it looks like a good bet, but ...);
  • that there will be a Katalyst version of the Exaktbox 10 (will it fit in the box?);
  • that our existing Exaktboxes will be upgradeable (we want it to be just a board change, but who knows?);
  • that the upgrade pricing will be more or less in line with Linn's previous practice (I'd be grateful if timster could start saying nice things about Linn marketing Smile).

David

I've never said anything but Wink
But I'll be extra special nice come end of the year when we know the answers to those questions.
I didn't even think about room for Kat in the EBox10. But if you can fit 6 channels in the Klimax, which is quite a bit smaller... I guess it's more about heat dissipation.

Akurate EDSM | Majik ExaktBox-I [on Custom Design iRAPs] | Majik 140, REL T5
Rega RP1, [QNAP HS-251+, Jitterbug, MinimServer, Asset], Kazoo [Linx1010]

AV: Marantz NR1506 | B&W 620(C), M1(S), REL T5 (LFE) | Fronts powered by Linn
Net: NetGear DGN2200 | GS108 | AQ Forest x3

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2017-05-27, 13:07
Post: #23
RE: Akudorik and Akubarik Exakt with Katalyst!
There's room for a second board above the existing board in the Exaktbox10, should it be needed.

Main: AK/0/D; AEDSM; MeiCord AExaktbox10; Silvers 2x A4200/1; K400 NSL Exakt dual-mono PMC Twenty.26; Twenty.C; Blacks AV5125 PMC Twenty.21
Playroom: SBT; V-DAC1; Cyrus6; M773e
Garage: SBT/Rega DAC; Arcam AVR100; 2x AV5125; Aktiv Ninkas, Trikan, AVSeKretan
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2017-05-27, 13:49
Post: #24
RE: Akudorik and Akubarik Exakt with Katalyst!
(2017-05-27 13:07)sunbeamgls Wrote:  There's room for a second board above the existing board in the Exaktbox10, should it be needed.

Good point. There are already two 'upper level' boards in the ADSM, for example. Timster's point about heat dissipation is an issue. I suppose that, on the board, the FGPA(s) will generate most heat. Incidentally, does each DAC chip require its own FGPA, or are they shared?

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
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2017-05-27, 14:40
Post: #25
RE: Akudorik and Akubarik Exakt with Katalyst!
I was also interested to know how many DACs. Is it 1 per channel? Or can one DAC handle 2 channels (ie. stereo).

Akurate EDSM | Majik ExaktBox-I [on Custom Design iRAPs] | Majik 140, REL T5
Rega RP1, [QNAP HS-251+, Jitterbug, MinimServer, Asset], Kazoo [Linx1010]

AV: Marantz NR1506 | B&W 620(C), M1(S), REL T5 (LFE) | Fronts powered by Linn
Net: NetGear DGN2200 | GS108 | AQ Forest x3

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2017-05-27, 16:15
Post: #26
RE: Akudorik and Akubarik Exakt with Katalyst!
Most DACs can handle stereo, or even 5.1, but my first introduction with 'high end' included a test with 2 Cambridge Audio CD players where the only difference wat that the more expensive one had 2 DACs instead on one. The 2 DAC version was the one that I bought without any hesitation after an hour of blind testing.

I wonder though if Linn will bring out different configurations of DACs vs FPGAs for Akurate. With Exakt Surround there could be room for more logical setups, like 4 or 8 DACs with half the amount of FPGAs. Or addon FPGA cards in the Exaktboxes, so one could use a AE10 on 3 speakers.
But we'll see. Wink

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2017-05-28, 08:09
Post: #27
RE: Akudorik and Akubarik Exakt with Katalyst!
Thanks Tin. Interesting. It does imply Linn would want to use one DAC per channel. That's alot of DACs. Don't really understand the relationship between DAC and FPGAs - I kind of thought the FPGA resides on the chip (so a 1 for 1)? Or is it a separate chip?

Akurate EDSM | Majik ExaktBox-I [on Custom Design iRAPs] | Majik 140, REL T5
Rega RP1, [QNAP HS-251+, Jitterbug, MinimServer, Asset], Kazoo [Linx1010]

AV: Marantz NR1506 | B&W 620(C), M1(S), REL T5 (LFE) | Fronts powered by Linn
Net: NetGear DGN2200 | GS108 | AQ Forest x3

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2017-05-28, 09:34 (This post was last modified: 2017-05-28 09:40 by DavidHB.)
Post: #28
RE: Akudorik and Akubarik Exakt with Katalyst!
(2017-05-28 08:09)timster Wrote:  I kind of thought the FPGA resides on the chip (so a 1 for 1)? Or is it a separate chip?

It's a separate chip. FPGA is a chip type (like EEPROM); the acronym stands for 'Field Programmable Gate Array'. Think of a set of unconnected logic gates forming a 'blank canvas' that only becomes a dedicated processor when it is programmed (by Linn in this case) for use in a specific device. That programming is a major part of what makes a Linn DAC special and proprietary.

Linn are obviously not going to make all of the programming details public, but we do know that the FPGA is used to take a large part of the data processing load (particularly data up- and down-sampling) out of the DAC chip itself, as part of the effort to keep the noise floor of the device as low as possible. So, although, the FPGA and DAC are separate chips, they are both integral parts of the same system, and in Linn's configuration each is meaningless without the other.

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
Second system: Kiko
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2017-05-28, 11:23 (This post was last modified: 2017-05-28 11:28 by sunbeamgls.)
Post: #29
RE: Akudorik and Akubarik Exakt with Katalyst!
Inside the Exaktboxes:

A Exaktbox 6:
- 1 Exakt Engine (which can do one channel of multi-driver full power processing, or 2 channels of 2-driver full range or multi-driver limited power processing)
- 1 DAC per channel (so 6 DACs)

A Exaktbox 10:
- 2 Exakt Engines (2 channels of 2-driver full range or multi-driver full power processing)
- 1 DAC per channel (so 10 DACs)

A Exaktbox 8i:
- 2 Exakt Engines (2 channels of 2-driver full range or multi-driver full power processing)
- 1 DAC per channel (so 8 DACs)

K Exaktbox/0
- 1 Exakt Engine (which can do one channel of multi-driver full power processing, or 2 channels of 2-driver full range or multi-driver limited power processing)
- 1 DAC and transformer per channel (so 6 DACs and transformers)

K Exaktbox/1
- 1 Exakt Engine which is an upgraded version compared to the first generation Exakboxes (which can do 2 channels of multi-driver full power processing)
- 1 DAC and transformer per channel (so 6 DACs and transformers)

Note, the Exakt engines and DACs for the Exakt 350 integrated design are aligned to the Akurate Exaktbox 6, not the Klimax Exaktbox.
I beliver the Exakt engines and DACs in the Exakt Akubarik integrated design have one Exakt engine and 5 DACs.

Looking at the pictures (Exaktbox 10 at the top of the post), the 2x Exakt engines are upper left, I suspect the FPGA is the one just below - middle left and therefore one FPGA per Exaktbox, but this bit is guess work. The chips in each DAC "cluster" don't look to include an FPGA.

https://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/archive/ind...33206.html

Main: AK/0/D; AEDSM; MeiCord AExaktbox10; Silvers 2x A4200/1; K400 NSL Exakt dual-mono PMC Twenty.26; Twenty.C; Blacks AV5125 PMC Twenty.21
Playroom: SBT; V-DAC1; Cyrus6; M773e
Garage: SBT/Rega DAC; Arcam AVR100; 2x AV5125; Aktiv Ninkas, Trikan, AVSeKretan
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2017-05-28, 12:55
Post: #30
RE: Akudorik and Akubarik Exakt with Katalyst!
I think this thread is becoming way too complicated and starts to contain errors.

Davids answer is technically correct, but what a FPGA basically is, is just an integrated CPU.
Davaar is a operating software package that runs on that CPU, just like Windows on a PC, or Android on a phone.
The Exakt Engine is part of Davaar, just like SPACE, volume control and the decoding of different formats are.
In a normal DS(M) the FPGA does 'all the things' but when you add one or more Exaktboxes part of the workload is being transferred to them instead.

So, in SunbeamGLSs post, replace the word Exakt Engine, which is a functional description, with FPGA or CPU to get a physical description.

The FPGAs in the Katalyst devices are more powerful than the ones in the non Katalyst devices, but as the workload for Katalyst increases as well, that probably doesn't change the amount of channels a FPGA can handle, but we'll find out when Katalyst gets to Akurate and lower levels.

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