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Akudorik and Akubarik Exakt with Katalyst!
2017-05-28, 12:55
Post: #31
RE: Akudorik and Akubarik Exakt with Katalyst!
Thanks, Sunbeam. Your analysis and guesswork makes sense to me; ideally someone from Linn would comment also.

Incidentally, do you know what kind of chips the Exakt engines are? Are they some form of processor in their own right, or are they (say) EEPROMs containing data and/or firmware programs which are actually processed by the nearby FPGA (if that is what it is)?

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
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2017-05-28, 12:57
Post: #32
RE: Akudorik and Akubarik Exakt with Katalyst!
(2017-05-28 12:55)DavidHB Wrote:  Thanks, Sunbeam. Your analysis and guesswork makes sense to me; ideally someone from Linn would comment also.

Incidentally, do you know what kind of chips the Exakt engines are? Are they some form of processor in their own right, or are they (say) EEPROMs containing data and/or firmware programs which are actually processed by the nearby FPGA (if that is what it is)?

David
I think your post interfered with mine. Wink

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2017-05-28, 13:15
Post: #33
RE: Akudorik and Akubarik Exakt with Katalyst!
(2017-05-28 12:57)Tin Wrote:  I think your post interfered with mine. Wink

No, actually I think that I'm disagreeing with you. Which should rejoice your heart ... Smile

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
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2017-05-28, 13:36
Post: #34
RE: Akudorik and Akubarik Exakt with Katalyst!
(2017-05-28 12:55)Tin Wrote:  I think this thread is becoming way too complicated and starts to contain errors.

Davids answer is technically correct, but what a FPGA basically is, is just an integrated CPU.
Davaar is a operating software package that runs on that CPU, just like Windows on a PC, or Android on a phone.
The Exakt Engine is part of Davaar, just like SPACE, volume control and the decoding of different formats are.
In a normal DS(M) the FPGA does 'all the things' but when you add one or more Exaktboxes part of the workload is being transferred to them instead.

So, in SunbeamGLSs post, replace the word Exakt Engine, which is a functional description, with FPGA or CPU to get a physical description.

The FPGAs in the Katalyst devices are more powerful than the ones in the non Katalyst devices, but as the workload for Katalyst increases as well, that probably doesn't change the amount of channels a FPGA can handle, but we'll find out when Katalyst gets to Akurate and lower levels.

The Exakt Engine does, indeed run in an FPGA. It is possible that this same FPGA does what the FPGA does in a DS or DSM in addition to the Exakt processing.

In terms of terminology, then yes, the Exakt Engine functionality runs in the FPGA. FPGA and CPU are not really interchangeable terms. A CPU usually refers to a processor that can do many different things to different chunks of data and is good at managing its resources to move between these different tasks, but its not very good at doing the same thing to a limited number of data sets, which is something an FPGA does very efficiently, relative to a general purpose CPU.

Interested in what Katalyst does to increase the load on the FPGA - what's that due to please Tin?

The more powerful FPGA in a KEB/1 compared to KEB/0 is absolutely there to enable it to handle more channels. KEB/1 can now run both of my Twenty.26s with full processing power, whereas the one in KEB/0 restricts the quality of the Exaktification of the bass drivers. When working in Exakt.Design I have to compromise the quality of bass processing when using the original generation of single Exakt Engine FPGAs compared to those in the new KEB/1. Not an issue in Exaktbox 8i nor in Exaktbox 10 as they have an Exakt Engine FPGA per channel.

I'm not sure that its entirely correct to say that the Exaktboxes run Davaar, but I'm not near Konfig to check the correct terminology. Its probably part of the story.

Main: AK/0/D; AEDSM; MeiCord AExaktbox10; Silvers 2x A4200/1; K400 NSL Exakt dual-mono PMC Twenty.26; Twenty.C; Blacks AV5125 PMC Twenty.21
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2017-05-28, 15:23 (This post was last modified: 2017-05-28 15:27 by Tin.)
Post: #35
RE: Akudorik and Akubarik Exakt with Katalyst!
AFAIK Katalyst runs internally on 64 bit instead of 32 bit. That'll cost some performance.

The FPGA in the DS(M)s does run a myriad of things; it takes care of the network stack, it runs a webserver, it accepts commands on TCP port 23, it decodes FLAC, MP3, AAC, it accomodates the volume control, filtering, SPACE and I probably missed a few things.

By calling it a CPU I'm demystifying the word FPGA which some people seem to think is something magical. To understand better how a DS works it would be best to consider it to be just a computer.

The heart of it, is an operating system and some applications which, as a package Linn calls Davaar. The majority of the code is of-the-shelf OpenSource software. The parts that Linn wrote themselves is of course what distinguishes them from the competition.

My apologies if all this sounds patronising, but if you don't consider a DS as a computer, you can't get the picture right.
If you add one or more Exaktboxes to a DS, you extend the computer over more devices. The FPGAs/CPUs in the Exaktboxes have a much more boring life than their DS counterparts as correcting the phases of the different audiostreams (one per DAC) seems to be the majority of their workload.

I actually don't think the Exaktboxes run the same OS, as I think they act more as slaves of the Central Processing Unit in the DS. But as I don't have an Exaktbox I can't check the terminology at all. Wink

(2017-05-28 13:15)DavidHB Wrote:  
(2017-05-28 12:57)Tin Wrote:  I think your post interfered with mine. Wink

No, actually I think that I'm disagreeing with you. Which should rejoice your heart ... Smile

David
Not if you're wrong. Wink

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2017-05-28, 18:29
Post: #36
RE: Akudorik and Akubarik Exakt with Katalyst!
(2017-05-28 15:23)Tin Wrote:  The FPGAs/CPUs in the Exaktboxes have a much more boring life than their DS counterparts as correcting the phases of the different audiostreams (one per DAC) seems to be the majority of their workload.

That’s wrong. The volume control and all of the filtering is done in the Exaktboxes.

AEDSM > KEB/1 x 2 > Linn Silvers > A4200/1 x 2 > K200 > MISOs
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2017-05-28, 18:44
Post: #37
RE: Akudorik and Akubarik Exakt with Katalyst!
(2017-05-28 18:29)BB1 Wrote:  
(2017-05-28 15:23)Tin Wrote:  The FPGAs/CPUs in the Exaktboxes have a much more boring life than their DS counterparts as correcting the phases of the different audiostreams (one per DAC) seems to be the majority of their workload.

That’s wrong. The volume control and all of the filtering is done in the Exaktboxes.
Can you show how you know that? If there's a thread I missed, or forgot about, I'd like to read more.

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2017-05-28, 19:13
Post: #38
RE: Akudorik and Akubarik Exakt with Katalyst!
(2017-05-28 18:44)Tin Wrote:  
(2017-05-28 18:29)BB1 Wrote:  
(2017-05-28 15:23)Tin Wrote:  The FPGAs/CPUs in the Exaktboxes have a much more boring life than their DS counterparts as correcting the phases of the different audiostreams (one per DAC) seems to be the majority of their workload.

That’s wrong. The volume control and all of the filtering is done in the Exaktboxes.
Can you show how you know that? If there's a thread I missed, or forgot about, I'd like to read more.

I think actually owning an Exaktbox is key here. When you apply an SO profile, it is applied to the Exaktbox, not the Ds (unless you have it configured to output via its analogue outs). You can have a completely different SO profile in the Ds to the one in the Exaktbox(es). I know this because I reverted to non-Exakt passive for a week or so last year.
I'm not sure, but I think the Ds might still do the upsampling, but everything else is done in the Exaktbox.

ADs/2 -> Klimax Exaktbox/1 -> Silvers -> 2xKCT/D -> K200 -> Ninka
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2017-05-28, 19:19
Post: #39
RE: Akudorik and Akubarik Exakt with Katalyst!
(2017-05-28 18:44)Tin Wrote:  
(2017-05-28 18:29)BB1 Wrote:  
(2017-05-28 15:23)Tin Wrote:  The FPGAs/CPUs in the Exaktboxes have a much more boring life than their DS counterparts as correcting the phases of the different audiostreams (one per DAC) seems to be the majority of their workload.

That’s wrong. The volume control and all of the filtering is done in the Exaktboxes.
Can you show how you know that? If there's a thread I missed, or forgot about, I'd like to read more.

1. Filtering

In an Exakt system it takes much longer to apply new SO settings. This is due to the fact, that the new settings must be transmitted to the Exaktbox. With two Exaktboxes as in my system, it takes even longer because the settings are consecutively transmitted and applied. And as sunbeamgls stated, the KEB/0 wasn’t able to run dual mono filters whereas the KEB/1 is, irrespectively of the DSM.

2. Volume control

I’ve read here on the forums an official reply from Linn stating that the volume control takes place in the Exaktbox, but unfortunately I can’t find it at the moment.

AEDSM > KEB/1 x 2 > Linn Silvers > A4200/1 x 2 > K200 > MISOs
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2017-05-28, 19:23
Post: #40
RE: Akudorik and Akubarik Exakt with Katalyst!
...maybe the upsampling is done in the Exaktboxes too - the Exaktlink is supposedly capable of carrying eight channels at 24/192. If it were already upsampled to 32/384 that statement would be a bit pointless Big Grin ...and the (multiple) volume controls work at 32/384 (or more with Kat) so the upsampling must also be done in the Exaktbox I think. Leaving the Ds sitting there feeling bored.

ADs/2 -> Klimax Exaktbox/1 -> Silvers -> 2xKCT/D -> K200 -> Ninka
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