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Fine Tuning SPACE Optimization, To Get The Best Out of Davaar 173 Through To 185
2017-06-02, 13:45
Post: #11
RE: Fine Tuning SPACE Optimization, To Get The Best Out of Davaar 173, 174 and 175
Great write up! Glad to have had time to read it.

Lake Michigan is calling.

1 - LP12 SE, KDS, Lejonklou Boazu, JBL 3677s
2 - RKDS, KK, ATC50ASLTs
3 - Piano Disc'd Steinway, ADS, Karin, Klout, Kabers.
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2017-06-02, 14:19
Post: #12
RE: Fine Tuning SPACE Optimization, To Get The Best Out of Davaar 173, 174 and 175
Great stuff again Paul, thanks for putting all this time into the words.

I would suggest that there be more emphasis on setting the system up without SPACE first - it is briefly mentioned in the notes but needs to be highlighted more. SPACE tuning as documented by Paul is fantastic, but there is no substitute for getting the basics right in the first place. I think many will find that much less SPACE tuning is required if basic set up has been done thoroughly using Tune Dem.

Main: AK/0/D; AEDSM; MeiCord AExaktbox10; Silvers 2x A4200/1; K400 NSL Exakt dual-mono PMC Twenty.26; Twenty.C; Blacks AV5125 PMC Twenty.21
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2017-06-02, 17:07
Post: #13
RE: Fine Tuning SPACE Optimization, To Get The Best Out of Davaar 173, 174 and 175
(2017-06-02 10:56)glevethan Wrote:  Paul
Thank you so much for this comprehensive set of SPACE instructions. It might finally be the time for me to get off of my butt and attempt this in the proper way. I even bought a laser measure a few months ago!

Anyone who uses several of the same tracks which are always on my test playlist must know what he is doing! Leonard Cohen "In My Secret Life" never fails! May I also recommend, from the same album, "Boogie Street" - Sharon Robinsons voice, not for how many cigarettes she has smokes (as I am sure she is not a smoker) but rather for all the sultriness she brings to the equation - and the beat which follows her solo intro.

As mentioned in a previous email - New York awaits you when you make it down this way.

Best
Gregg

Hi Gregg,

Yes, thank you for the invitation.

You are on the list for a potential visit.

Thanks, I'll check out the song "Boogie Street.


(2017-06-02 12:31)hashluck Wrote:  Thank you Paul. I am away from my system at the moment but cannot wait to have another play!


Hi Hashluck.

In your system, if you are using Davaar 173 or newer, look at the room mode around 74.3 Hz and try increasing the bandwidth slightly, to smooth out the vocals. Also look at backing off the gain on the first custom room mode, with Diana Krall's "A Case Of You"

I think you will find an improvement?

This also works on earlier versions of Davaar in the New SPACE optimization, but not in the pre Christmas versions. There I prefer the very narrow notch filter, 0.014427.

Wish I could have heard your new Katalyzed system. Must sound awesome.


(2017-06-02 13:45)SaltyDog Wrote:  Great write up! Glad to have had time to read it.

Lake Michigan is calling.

Hey Salty, long time no hear.

Thank you for the invitation to Lake Michigan.

I would love to try tweaking your ATC's

Cheers
Paul

(2017-06-02 14:19)sunbeamgls Wrote:  Great stuff again Paul, thanks for putting all this time into the words.

I would suggest that there be more emphasis on setting the system up without SPACE first - it is briefly mentioned in the notes but needs to be highlighted more. SPACE tuning as documented by Paul is fantastic, but there is no substitute for getting the basics right in the first place. I think many will find that much less SPACE tuning is required if basic set up has been done thoroughly using Tune Dem.

Thanks Sunbeam.

Knowing your penchant for detail and discovery, you seem like the perfect person to write up a thread on the basics. Tongue

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Power: Environmental Potentials 2460, Shunyata Triton, Zitron Cobras, Alpha Digitals
Room Acoustics: SPACE, SubDude HT's, Acoustic Panels
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2017-06-02, 17:33
Post: #14
RE: Fine Tuning SPACE Optimization, To Get The Best Out of Davaar 173, 174 and 175
(2017-06-02 07:13)mcgillroy Wrote:  Wow - thx Paul this is amazing. Here goes my weekend Wink

Two questions: you write the Keilidhs starting point would be around 30hz.Did you come across any (passive) Kabers and have a suggestion concerning the starting point?

Secondly how do you deal with subs in such a situation: do you treat the speaker as the starting point or the sub?

I wonder if Linn shouldn't additionally implement sliders in Konfig making adjustments like this easier. A combination of a pop-out-slider and a box for viewing/entering the exact values would speed up the process a lot.

I've just had a look and Paul set the lowest custom filter at 24.0 Hz, however, it's not very deep - only -4.48 - and set to minimum width. Since my system is active, which pushes the lower limit down about 10 Hz, if I remember correctly, it may be that with a passive system this filter may not really be needed.

Cheers

Roy

Main System: 1976 LP12 (with some updates till 1985), DV20X2L, ADSM Renew, Kaber Active X-over + 3x LK140, K600, Kabers, (Naim CD 5SI, no longer actively used)
Reserve System: Naim NAC 12S (with MC boards), HiCap, NAP 160, NAC4, Linn Sara 9s
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2017-06-02, 18:05
Post: #15
RE: Fine Tuning SPACE Optimization, To Get The Best Out of Davaar 173, 174 and 175
Paul,

Re Dire Straits track - Doesn't the instrument used change from the opening trumpet to a sax just before he starts singing? Can't pretend to be an expert and only listened to it once but thought that's what I heard.

Awesome post and the longer your description of the tracks are the better it is. You should write album reviews like that Smile thankfully this time I had all of them already - phew Smile
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2017-06-02, 18:06 (This post was last modified: 2017-06-02 18:11 by Paulssurround.)
Post: #16
RE: Fine Tuning SPACE Optimization, To Get The Best Out of Davaar 173, 174 and 175
(2017-06-02 17:33)RMA Wrote:  
(2017-06-02 07:13)mcgillroy Wrote:  Wow - thx Paul this is amazing. Here goes my weekend Wink

Two questions: you write the Keilidhs starting point would be around 30hz.Did you come across any (passive) Kabers and have a suggestion concerning the starting point?

Secondly how do you deal with subs in such a situation: do you treat the speaker as the starting point or the sub?

I wonder if Linn shouldn't additionally implement sliders in Konfig making adjustments like this easier. A combination of a pop-out-slider and a box for viewing/entering the exact values would speed up the process a lot.

I've just had a look and Paul set the lowest custom filter at 24.0 Hz, however, it's not very deep - only -4.48 - and set to minimum width. Since my system is active, which pushes the lower limit down about 10 Hz, if I remember correctly, it may be that with a passive system this filter may not really be needed.

Cheers

Roy

Hi Roy,

I hope all is well with you and your lovely wife.

Yes, much has changed since I was out your way at the end of November.

If I were to revisit, with the newer SPACE Optimization Davaar, the settings may be quite different.

Cheers
Paul

(2017-06-02 18:05)Martin H Wrote:  Paul,

Re Dire Straits track - Doesn't the instrument used change from the opening trumpet to a sax just before he starts singing? Can't pretend to be an expert and only listened to it once but thought that's what I heard.

Awesome post and the longer your description of the tracks are the better it is. You should write album reviews like that Smile thankfully this time I had all of them already - phew Smile

Hi Martin,

Yes I believe you are right, the track on my SACD version starts out with saxophone and then changes. I'm going to take another listen....

Some versions only have the sax.

Exakt Surround 5.0:
Katalyst Akubariks, AEDSM, Akurate Exaktbox 6/4200 for 225 Centre, Majik Exaktbox I for 212 Surrounds, OPPO 105 on StillPoints.
Power: Environmental Potentials 2460, Shunyata Triton, Zitron Cobras, Alpha Digitals
Room Acoustics: SPACE, SubDude HT's, Acoustic Panels
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2017-06-02, 18:51 (This post was last modified: 2017-06-02 18:52 by Martin H.)
Post: #17
RE: Fine Tuning SPACE Optimization, To Get The Best Out of Davaar 173, 174 and 175
(2017-06-02 18:06)Paulssurround Wrote:  
(2017-06-02 17:33)RMA Wrote:  
(2017-06-02 07:13)mcgillroy Wrote:  Wow - thx Paul this is amazing. Here goes my weekend Wink

Two questions: you write the Keilidhs starting point would be around 30hz.Did you come across any (passive) Kabers and have a suggestion concerning the starting point?

Secondly how do you deal with subs in such a situation: do you treat the speaker as the starting point or the sub?

I wonder if Linn shouldn't additionally implement sliders in Konfig making adjustments like this easier. A combination of a pop-out-slider and a box for viewing/entering the exact values would speed up the process a lot.

I've just had a look and Paul set the lowest custom filter at 24.0 Hz, however, it's not very deep - only -4.48 - and set to minimum width. Since my system is active, which pushes the lower limit down about 10 Hz, if I remember correctly, it may be that with a passive system this filter may not really be needed.

Cheers

Roy

Hi Roy,

I hope all is well with you and your lovely wife.

Yes, much has changed since I was out your way at the end of November.

If I were to revisit, with the newer SPACE Optimization Davaar, the settings may be quite different.

Cheers
Paul

(2017-06-02 18:05)Martin H Wrote:  Paul,

Re Dire Straits track - Doesn't the instrument used change from the opening trumpet to a sax just before he starts singing? Can't pretend to be an expert and only listened to it once but thought that's what I heard.

Awesome post and the longer your description of the tracks are the better it is. You should write album reviews like that Smile thankfully this time I had all of them already - phew Smile

Hi Martin,

Yes I believe you are right, the track on my SACD version starts out with saxophone and then changes. I'm going to take another listen....

Some versions only have the sax.

The version I listened to started with trumpet and changed to sax (I think) - I have 2 versions but haven't listened to the other one yet although I think one is a remastered version of the other rather than a different recording.

I do like your descriptions. Big Grin they make me want to listen to the tracks.
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2017-06-02, 20:18
Post: #18
RE: Fine Tuning SPACE Optimization, To Get The Best Out of Davaar 173, 174 and 175
(2017-06-02 18:06)Paulssurround Wrote:  
(2017-06-02 18:05)Martin H Wrote:  Paul,

Re Dire Straits track - Doesn't the instrument used change from the opening trumpet to a sax just before he starts singing? Can't pretend to be an expert and only listened to it once but thought that's what I heard.

Awesome post and the longer your description of the tracks are the better it is. You should write album reviews like that Smile thankfully this time I had all of them already - phew Smile

Hi Martin,

Yes I believe you are right, the track on my SACD version starts out with saxophone and then changes. I'm going to take another listen....

Some versions only have the sax.

The version on Brothers In Arms 20th Anniversary Edition (24/88.2 SACD) has the trumpet then the sax. The change is very clear as it is essentially the end of the intro and the start of the track proper at 1:08.

Must say though, the track I was listening to was called "Your Latest Trick", so perhaps its something completely different Big Grin Tongue

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2017-06-02, 20:54 (This post was last modified: 2017-06-02 20:59 by Martin H.)
Post: #19
RE: Fine Tuning SPACE Optimization, To Get The Best Out of Davaar 173, 174 and 175
(2017-06-02 20:18)sunbeamgls Wrote:  
(2017-06-02 18:06)Paulssurround Wrote:  
(2017-06-02 18:05)Martin H Wrote:  Paul,

Re Dire Straits track - Doesn't the instrument used change from the opening trumpet to a sax just before he starts singing? Can't pretend to be an expert and only listened to it once but thought that's what I heard.

Awesome post and the longer your description of the tracks are the better it is. You should write album reviews like that Smile thankfully this time I had all of them already - phew Smile

Hi Martin,

Yes I believe you are right, the track on my SACD version starts out with saxophone and then changes. I'm going to take another listen....

Some versions only have the sax.

The version on Brothers In Arms 20th Anniversary Edition (24/88.2 SACD) has the trumpet then the sax. The change is very clear as it is essentially the end of the intro and the start of the track proper at 1:08.

Must say though, the track I was listening to was called "Your Latest Trick", so perhaps its something completely different Big Grin Tongue

I was listening to the 1996 CD 'version' not the 1985 one. Or at least that is what it said - I have to admit mine was also named Your Latest Trick.

EDIT - according to Discogs there 210 versions. maybe one of them is named 'my' Big Grin
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2017-06-02, 21:00
Post: #20
RE: Fine Tuning SPACE Optimization, To Get The Best Out of Davaar 173, 174 and 175
^ Perhaps Paul renamed the track in honour of his latest SO tweakery Smile

Main: AK/0/D; AEDSM; MeiCord AExaktbox10; Silvers 2x A4200/1; K400 NSL Exakt dual-mono PMC Twenty.26; Twenty.C; Blacks AV5125 PMC Twenty.21
Playroom: SBT; V-DAC1; Cyrus6; M773e
Garage: SBT/Rega DAC; Arcam AVR100; 2x AV5125; Aktiv Ninkas, Trikan, AVSeKretan
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