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Sub Exakt / Linn serie 5
2017-08-01, 22:44
Post: #11
RE: Sub Exakt / Linn serie 5
@David: The sub has a filter bypass, with it bypassed the phase control doesn't have any effect likewise the frequency cutoff is disabled. Only the volume control makes any difference. That's how it's supposed to be set up for Exakt I believe.
Interesting point regarding positioning though. I don't have a lot of room to play with that but it's something else to experiment with thanks Smile

@Tin: Yes, there's a definite difference with it switched off - and having just played some grunty organ music it certainly extends the bass downwards and there's some rumbling action going on. The thing is, I get the impression that it's not quite as 'clean' sounding with the sub in play. Maybe a little less 'kick' to drums etc.

The biggest factor in all of this is probably that I've never had a sub before, so I don't really know what to expect. Perhaps I should turn it down even further...

ADs/2 -> Klimax Exaktbox/1 -> Silvers -> 2xKCT/D -> K200 -> Ninka
Exaktbox Sub - BK Sub
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2017-08-01, 22:52
Post: #12
RE: Sub Exakt / Linn serie 5
...apologies to the op for hijacking the thread Smile

ADs/2 -> Klimax Exaktbox/1 -> Silvers -> 2xKCT/D -> K200 -> Ninka
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2017-08-02, 07:03
Post: #13
RE: Sub Exakt / Linn serie 5
(2017-08-01 22:44)phino Wrote:  @David: The sub has a filter bypass, with it bypassed the phase control doesn't have any effect likewise the frequency cutoff is disabled. Only the volume control makes any difference. That's how it's supposed to be set up for Exakt I believe.
Interesting point regarding positioning though. I don't have a lot of room to play with that but it's something else to experiment with thanks Smile

@Tin: Yes, there's a definite difference with it switched off - and having just played some grunty organ music it certainly extends the bass downwards and there's some rumbling action going on. The thing is, I get the impression that it's not quite as 'clean' sounding with the sub in play. Maybe a little less 'kick' to drums etc.

The biggest factor in all of this is probably that I've never had a sub before, so I don't really know what to expect. Perhaps I should turn it down even further...
I still have the impression that Linn hasn't lowered the crossover frequency for the subs when they improved the filters for the Ninkas. The crossover should be really low, probably even starting at around 20 or 22Hz for Exakted Ninkas.

What you could try is to enable the filter on the sub and put it as low as possible.
That way you have 2 crossovers working together which means the drop should be twice as steep. If this allows you to turn up the volume of the sub to 3 or maybe even 4 without the higher frequencies starting to sound wooly, we know for sure.
Of course you'd introduce some phase issues, but my setup is full of them and still is pallatable so I'm sure you'll survive. Smile

I'm not sure if the Rel/BK way of doing sub bass is really so much different from other companies but if done right I'm sure that Exakt and those subs could be a killer combination.

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2017-08-02, 13:27
Post: #14
RE: Sub Exakt / Linn serie 5
(2017-08-02 07:03)Tin Wrote:  
(2017-08-01 22:44)phino Wrote:  @David: The sub has a filter bypass, with it bypassed the phase control doesn't have any effect likewise the frequency cutoff is disabled. Only the volume control makes any difference. That's how it's supposed to be set up for Exakt I believe.
Interesting point regarding positioning though. I don't have a lot of room to play with that but it's something else to experiment with thanks Smile

@Tin: Yes, there's a definite difference with it switched off - and having just played some grunty organ music it certainly extends the bass downwards and there's some rumbling action going on. The thing is, I get the impression that it's not quite as 'clean' sounding with the sub in play. Maybe a little less 'kick' to drums etc.

The biggest factor in all of this is probably that I've never had a sub before, so I don't really know what to expect. Perhaps I should turn it down even further...
I still have the impression that Linn hasn't lowered the crossover frequency for the subs when they improved the filters for the Ninkas. The crossover should be really low, probably even starting at around 20 or 22Hz for Exakted Ninkas.

What you could try is to enable the filter on the sub and put it as low as possible.
That way you have 2 crossovers working together which means the drop should be twice as steep. If this allows you to turn up the volume of the sub to 3 or maybe even 4 without the higher frequencies starting to sound wooly, we know for sure.
Of course you'd introduce some phase issues, but my setup is full of them and still is pallatable so I'm sure you'll survive. Smile

I'm not sure if the Rel/BK way of doing sub bass is really so much different from other companies but if done right I'm sure that Exakt and those subs could be a killer combination.

Not sure what reintroducing the passive filter will do to the phase. Perhaps the Briain will be along soon Smile

Main: AK/0/D; AEDSM; MeiCord AExaktbox10; Silvers 2x A4200/1; K400 NSL Exakt dual-mono PMC Twenty.26; Twenty.C; Blacks AV5125 PMC Twenty.21
Playroom: SBT; V-DAC1; Cyrus6; M773e
Garage: SBT/Rega DAC; Arcam AVR100; 2x AV5125; Aktiv Ninkas, Trikan, AVSeKretan
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2017-08-02, 13:57
Post: #15
RE: Sub Exakt / Linn serie 5
(2017-08-02 13:27)sunbeamgls Wrote:  
(2017-08-02 07:03)Tin Wrote:  
(2017-08-01 22:44)phino Wrote:  @David: The sub has a filter bypass, with it bypassed the phase control doesn't have any effect likewise the frequency cutoff is disabled. Only the volume control makes any difference. That's how it's supposed to be set up for Exakt I believe.
Interesting point regarding positioning though. I don't have a lot of room to play with that but it's something else to experiment with thanks Smile

@Tin: Yes, there's a definite difference with it switched off - and having just played some grunty organ music it certainly extends the bass downwards and there's some rumbling action going on. The thing is, I get the impression that it's not quite as 'clean' sounding with the sub in play. Maybe a little less 'kick' to drums etc.

The biggest factor in all of this is probably that I've never had a sub before, so I don't really know what to expect. Perhaps I should turn it down even further...
I still have the impression that Linn hasn't lowered the crossover frequency for the subs when they improved the filters for the Ninkas. The crossover should be really low, probably even starting at around 20 or 22Hz for Exakted Ninkas.

What you could try is to enable the filter on the sub and put it as low as possible.
That way you have 2 crossovers working together which means the drop should be twice as steep. If this allows you to turn up the volume of the sub to 3 or maybe even 4 without the higher frequencies starting to sound wooly, we know for sure.
Of course you'd introduce some phase issues, but my setup is full of them and still is pallatable so I'm sure you'll survive. Smile

I'm not sure if the Rel/BK way of doing sub bass is really so much different from other companies but if done right I'm sure that Exakt and those subs could be a killer combination.

Not sure what reintroducing the passive filter will do to the phase. Perhaps the Briain will be along soon Smile
Briains phase issues came mostly from the fact that his 345s and the woofers of his 350s have -almost but not quite- the same rolloff, which meant they worked against each other for a large part of their spectrum.
Besides, everyone except for a tiny, tiny group of Exakt owners, has phase distorions in their setups. It is not the biggest problem in the world, and this test could give information if the rolloff in the Exaktbox-sub should be lower.
And if so, that is really a much larger problem: subs have a bad name because usually they start rolling off at 80 or even 120Hz where they are rubbish.

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2017-08-02, 19:30
Post: #16
RE: Sub Exakt / Linn serie 5
The phase shouldn't be a problem if you leave it at zero. After all, the Exaktbox has already sorted all of that, allegedly!
Anyhow, I gave it a quick go just now - seems a good idea. It certainly worked and with the volume on the sub cranked right up I could hear the effect of twiddling the frequency knob. I set it to where the sub was only generating frequencies below the main speakers (as far as I could tell) and played some stuff. I preferred it as it was I think. Maybe the sub does have to overlap to a certain extent in order to do all that "filling out" stuff?
The next trick is physically moving the sub. I can't get it into a corner as per the Rel guide unfortunately. I did have it right in the middle of the Ninkas, when it was set too loud it was messing up the soundstage I think, so it's now snuggled up to the right speaker. Linn's 226 manual says to place it close to a speaker and if you can't get it in a corner, get it close to a wall. So I might try shuffling it back a bit too...

ADs/2 -> Klimax Exaktbox/1 -> Silvers -> 2xKCT/D -> K200 -> Ninka
Exaktbox Sub - BK Sub
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2017-08-02, 20:49
Post: #17
RE: Sub Exakt / Linn serie 5
Did you change the location in Konfig too when you moved the sub around? It could influence your room modes, and if one is in the crossover area that could maybe explain your issues.

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2017-08-02, 21:16
Post: #18
RE: Sub Exakt / Linn serie 5
(2017-08-02 20:49)Tin Wrote:  Did you change the location in Konfig too when you moved the sub around? It could influence your room modes, and if one is in the crossover area that could maybe explain your issues.

Yup, SO has been kept up to date with the moves. My first room mode comes in at something like 39hz, so yes it could well be connected to that somehow.

ADs/2 -> Klimax Exaktbox/1 -> Silvers -> 2xKCT/D -> K200 -> Ninka
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2017-08-02, 23:46
Post: #19
RE: Sub Exakt / Linn serie 5
Ok, sorted I think. Tin's idea of enabling the filter didn't really work, but the theory was sound and the answer was doing something similar in the SO+ side of things. Simply giving the sub(s) 'ideal' positions farther out into the room introduced boundary filters (for the sub only) which had a similar effect to enabling the filter on the sub itself, but more subtle. I'm now getting the extended bass but without the sub muddying the bottom end of the Ninkas output. I've even been able to turn the gain up a bit on the sub.

ADs/2 -> Klimax Exaktbox/1 -> Silvers -> 2xKCT/D -> K200 -> Ninka
Exaktbox Sub - BK Sub
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