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Proper Belt Setup on an LP12
2017-10-06, 09:18
Post: #21
RE: Proper Belt Setup on an LP12
If trying to avoid silicone (or silicones) then I would avoid the use of Mr Sheen Firstly it has some pretty powerful organic solvents in there that will likely leach additives out of the rubber belt and secondly it has dimethicone in it, which I suspect is its main functional ingredient (the solvents are largely propellants and a means of getting the dimethicone and the microcrystalline wax (that is also in there) to the surface. Dimethicone is, in effect, a silicone (dimethyl silicone). Note that Silicon and Silicone, whilst often used interchangeably, are completely different things. Silicon is the element dug up out of the ground. Silicones are polymers using siloxanes (combinations of Silicon and Oxygen) of which dimethcone is just one.

Having just written this, and felt my spare belt, it is possible that dimethicone has been compounded into it. It has that silky feel. If there is dimethicone in there it will be at a (low) level so as to give pliability without introducing the low friction quality for which dimethicone is normally employed. (Dimethicone is the reason that lice fall off hair that has been treated with an anti-lce shampoo - this mean appear to be a gross example but it is a very important one, without these chemicals I would have no source of employment and consequently less disposable income to throw at music playback)!

Primary: LP12, Gaio, KRDS/1, Akurate Tuner, USC, Sony BRP, Kinos, 3 x 5125, Espeks, Ekwal, Katans, 2 x Sizmik 10.5, Stax 507. Stands Unique Supports
Secondary: LP12, Dino/Dino+, Pekin, Genki, Kairn, 3 x LK85, Keilidhs, Stands Unique Supports
Tertiary: Raumfeld Connector, Classik, Kan IVs
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2017-10-06, 10:16 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-06 10:32 by dreadatthecontrols.)
Post: #22
RE: Proper Belt Setup on an LP12
(2017-10-06 09:18)Dasher Wrote:  If trying to avoid silicone (or silicones) then I would avoid the use of Mr Sheen Firstly it has some pretty powerful organic solvents in there that will likely leach additives out of the rubber belt and secondly it has dimethicone in it, which I suspect is its main functional ingredient (the solvents are largely propellants and a means of getting the dimethicone and the microcrystalline wax (that is also in there) to the surface. Dimethicone is, in effect, a silicone (dimethyl silicone). Note that Silicon and Silicone, whilst often used interchangeably, are completely different things. Silicon is the element dug up out of the ground. Silicones are polymers using siloxanes (combinations of Silicon and Oxygen) of which dimethcone is just one.

Having just written this, and felt my spare belt, it is possible that dimethicone has been compounded into it. It has that silky feel. If there is dimethicone in there it will be at a (low) level so as to give pliability without introducing the low friction quality for which dimethicone is normally employed. (Dimethicone is the reason that lice fall off hair that has been treated with an anti-lce shampoo - this mean appear to be a gross example but it is a very important one, without these chemicals I would have no source of employment and consequently less disposable income to throw at music playback)!

Ingredients for Mr Sheen Original Multi Surface Polish in descending order according to the manufacturer;

Aqua

C10-12 Alkane/Cycloalkane

Butane

Propane

Isobutane

Sorbitan Oleate

Dimethicone

Parfum

Isopentane

Microcrystallina Cera

Paraffin

Sodium Benzoate

Hexyl Cinnamal

Butylphenyl Methylpropional

Benzyl Salicylate



I've used it for years to clean my Linn belt, like I said as demonstrated to me by my Linn dealer, he still uses it and so do I without problems. Once cleaned there is none of the slippage and juddering on motor start up mentioned by another comment, the platter seems to get up to speed much quicker and sound quality is restored.
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2017-10-06, 10:25
Post: #23
RE: Proper Belt Setup on an LP12
(2017-10-06 10:16)dreadatthecontrols Wrote:  
(2017-10-06 09:18)Dasher Wrote:  If trying to avoid silicone (or silicones) then I would avoid the use of Mr Sheen Firstly it has some pretty powerful organic solvents in there that will likely leach additives out of the rubber belt and secondly it has dimethicone in it, which I suspect is its main functional ingredient (the solvents are largely propellants and a means of getting the dimethicone and the microcrystalline wax (that is also in there) to the surface. Dimethicone is, in effect, a silicone (dimethyl silicone). Note that Silicon and Silicone, whilst often used interchangeably, are completely different things. Silicon is the element dug up out of the ground. Silicones are polymers using siloxanes (combinations of Silicon and Oxygen) of which dimethcone is just one.

Having just written this, and felt my spare belt, it is possible that dimethicone has been compounded into it. It has that silky feel. If there is dimethicone in there it will be at a (low) level so as to give pliability without introducing the low friction quality for which dimethicone is normally employed. (Dimethicone is the reason that lice fall off hair that has been treated with an anti-lce shampoo - this mean appear to be a gross example but it is a very important one, without these chemicals I would have no source of employment and consequently less disposable income to throw at music playback)!

I've used it for years to clean my Linn belt, like I said as demonstrated to me by my Linn dealer, he still uses it and so do I without problems. Once cleaned there is none of the slippage and juddering on motor start up mentioned by another comment, the platter seems to get up to speed much quicker and sound quality is restored.

Just to be clear - I didn't say that you couldn't or shouldn't do it - I was merely pointing out that for those who want to avoid the use of Silicones, then they should be aware that Mr Sheen contains them - it isn't so easy to find these things out.

Primary: LP12, Gaio, KRDS/1, Akurate Tuner, USC, Sony BRP, Kinos, 3 x 5125, Espeks, Ekwal, Katans, 2 x Sizmik 10.5, Stax 507. Stands Unique Supports
Secondary: LP12, Dino/Dino+, Pekin, Genki, Kairn, 3 x LK85, Keilidhs, Stands Unique Supports
Tertiary: Raumfeld Connector, Classik, Kan IVs
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2017-10-06, 11:56 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-06 11:58 by horizon.)
Post: #24
RE: Proper Belt Setup on an LP12
Mr Sheen works great on the belt, pulley and inner platter.
It helps to minimise belt creep noise when the decks in use.
It will sound better.
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2017-10-12, 23:56 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-12 23:57 by allthingsanalogue.)
Post: #25
RE: Proper Belt Setup on an LP12
I found some of this which I used to use for cassette decks and r2rs.

Any good for the belt?

[Image: 6558-5716267.jpg]
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2017-10-13, 09:08 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-13 09:10 by smokestack.)
Post: #26
RE: Proper Belt Setup on an LP12
You know what's really funny.

Down the years nobody has consistently been able to agree about whether we want to lubricate the belt...or maximise its grip .

You can't do both at once ! Big Grin
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2017-10-13, 09:39 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-13 09:42 by allthingsanalogue.)
Post: #27
RE: Proper Belt Setup on an LP12
Here's the Pdf

http://www.af-net.com/pdf/info/PCL100-TD...nclene.pdf

It leaves no residue and i think I prefer that idea to furniture polish? I'm sure the belt when new doesn't have any lubrication.

It's certainly never damaged a pinch roller and I wouldn't spray Mr Sheen on a pinch roller, it would never work again!!!!!!!!!

But if LINN say Mr Sheen who am I to argue?

decisions, decisions.............
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2017-10-13, 10:37 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-13 10:42 by LD100.)
Post: #28
RE: Proper Belt Setup on an LP12
(2017-10-13 09:08)smokestack Wrote:  You know what's really funny.

Down the years nobody has consistently been able to agree about whether we want to lubricate the belt...or maximise its grip .

You can't do both at once ! Big Grin

I went for the maximize its grip angle.
My 1978 set up manual stated nothing regarding cleaning the belt, so I went with what I had been using to clean the rubber on the reel to reel and cassette tape rollers.

Sold by TEAC, it's called "Rubber Cleaner/Conditioner and its primary ingredient is "Aromatic Hydrocarbon" (probably Benzene) and no alcohol.

The rollers on the 42 year old tape decks are like new, but of course the belt on the LP12 stretches and needs to be replaced no matter how nice the rubber is. Tongue

Original 1978 Fluted Afromosia LP12, Ekos 2, Lyra Kleos SL and lots of other stuff from the 70's that still work fine.
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2017-10-13, 10:47
Post: #29
RE: Proper Belt Setup on an LP12
Thanks LD1000

It would seem that the platenclene has a similir list of ingredients.
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2017-10-13, 12:22 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-13 12:34 by Glyn Ruck.)
Post: #30
RE: Proper Belt Setup on an LP12
(2017-10-13 10:37)LD100 Wrote:  
(2017-10-13 09:08)smokestack Wrote:  You know what's really funny.

Down the years nobody has consistently been able to agree about whether we want to lubricate the belt...or maximise its grip .

You can't do both at once ! Big Grin

I went for the maximize its grip angle.
My 1978 set up manual stated nothing regarding cleaning the belt, so I went with what I had been using to clean the rubber on the reel to reel and cassette tape rollers.

Sold by TEAC, it's called "Rubber Cleaner/Conditioner and its primary ingredient is "Aromatic Hydrocarbon" (probably Benzene) and no alcohol.

The rollers on the 42 year old tape decks are like new, but of course the belt on the LP12 stretches and needs to be replaced no matter how nice the rubber is. Tongue

Indeed! And one should remember that there is a considerable amount of controlled aromatic process oil & extracts in the rubber to start with.

One thing that has always made me wonder, is why Linn did not build a clutch mechanism into the motor pulley like Thorens. Maybe they found that it compromised speed accuracy?
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