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I need your advice
2017-08-20, 16:40 (This post was last modified: 2017-08-21 14:02 by spannko.)
Post: #11
RE: I need your advice
As DavidHB has stated, the frequency response graph is of very little (to zero!) value as an aid to adjusting SPACE.

However, the Waterfall plot, Spectral Decay Plot and Spectrogram can provide some useful pointers, and in your case, separate plots for each channel could be really insightful. Also, a comparison of the a) combined L+R plots and b) individual L&R plots would be really interesting (given that your speakers both "see" different acoustic spaces).

Could you post the Waterfalls, Spectral Decay and Spectrograms, all up to 200Hz and 1000ms?

It don't mean a thing (If it ain't got that swing)
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2017-08-20, 19:59
Post: #12
RE: I need your advice
In my case REW was only useful to identify te biggest bumps. Don't try to flatten the response completely, as you will not like a room that is completely neutral. Your eyes see a certain space and your brain expects some associated standing waves.

There is a thread by Paulssurround describing how to use your ears using SPACE: https://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=36884

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2017-08-20, 20:40
Post: #13
RE: I need your advice
(2017-08-20 19:59)Tin Wrote:  In my case REW was only useful to identify te biggest bumps. Don't try to flatten the response completely, as you will not like a room that is completely neutral. Your eyes see a certain space and your brain expects some associated standing waves.

There is a thread by Paulssurround describing how to use your ears using SPACE: https://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=36884


Using REW and SPACE to flatten the frequency response always results in a sub-optimal performance.

It don't mean a thing (If it ain't got that swing)
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2017-08-20, 22:48
Post: #14
RE: I need your advice
(2017-08-20 19:59)Tin Wrote:  In my case REW was only useful to identify te biggest bumps. Don't try to flatten the response completely, as you will not like a room that is completely neutral. Your eyes see a certain space and your brain expects some associated standing waves.

There is a thread by Paulssurround describing how to use your ears using SPACE: https://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=36884

Thanks for the mention, Tin,

The cheque is in the mail. Tongue

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Room Acoustics: SPACE, SubDude HT's, Acoustic Panels
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2017-08-21, 06:53
Post: #15
RE: I need your advice
(2017-08-20 22:48)Paulssurround Wrote:  
(2017-08-20 19:59)Tin Wrote:  In my case REW was only useful to identify te biggest bumps. Don't try to flatten the response completely, as you will not like a room that is completely neutral. Your eyes see a certain space and your brain expects some associated standing waves.

There is a thread by Paulssurround describing how to use your ears using SPACE: https://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=36884

Thanks for the mention, Tin,

The cheque is in the mail. Tongue
Great. I hope you didn't forget your autograph again.

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2017-08-22, 17:56
Post: #16
RE: I need your advice
Hi guys and thank you for your feedback!
I used REW to identify the problems I had in my room when I was dealing with the Devialet. I'm not really sure that I'm using in the right way. Anyway, at that time I decided to do a basic room treatment (two bass traps and an acoustic panel behind the seats).

Green: previous situation. Red: result.
   

Obviously that wasn't enough, but clearly something in the right direction. I explored different alternatives in the DRC area, and I decided to try the Linn's SO approach.
I think that for a novice it's very difficult to learn how to "tune dem" the system.
The problem is that you don't know what's right. Of course you can hear what's really wrong, but what's correct is a totally different matter. In my opinion you need to be trained to understand it. The "tune dem" messagge "When it's sound better is better" implies a lot of subjectivity, which in case you are a novice can be a lot. .

So I'm trying even knowing that this will be a long process and I've a lot to learn.

Anyway, given my room I tested different heights. I think the real height which is rappresenting my room is 3.7m.
This generates a (L) 44.91Hz, a (H) 46.49Hz and (HW) 64.16Hz. Which,I think, is aligned with the room response.


I will experiment around those room modes and see what happens. What do you think?

@Paulsurround: could you please share the Space tunes you mentioned in few posts?
@spannko: below the Waterfall plot, Spectral Decay Plot and Spectrogram for the L+R. If you want the rew file send me a pm, for same reason I cannot attach it directly.

   
   
   

Thank you again for you support!

Riccardo
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2017-08-27, 07:29 (This post was last modified: 2017-08-29 13:09 by spannko.)
Post: #17
RE: I need your advice
Hi Ricardo,

After reviewing your REW plots, I would make the following suggestions:

1) You've got one major mode at about 46.2Hz, so enter the room dimensions of 3.83m by 3.89m and vary the height until Konfig returns a filter at 46.2Hz. The rationale for this is it will force Konfig to generate a filter in the right region, but more importantly it will calculate a more accurate filter bandwidth. Try using the partition wall setting too. Although your wall boards are cement based (and more dense than plasterboard) they'll probably perform nearer to partition walling than concrete when mounted on a steel or timber frame (from an acoustic perspective).

2) Turn off all filters except for Filter One

3) Adjust the filter frequency in 0.1Hz steps until the best sound is achieved.

4) Adjust the gain in progressively smaller steps (down to 0.1dB) until the best sound is achieved.

5) Finally, do the same with the filter bandwidth. I find it easier to round the bandwidth to 3 decimal places, find the best bandwidth, then adjust to 4 decimal places.

As a quick check, turn off Filter One to ensure that by applying SO, you are making an improvement.

I've got a feeling that this is all that will be necessary to improve the sound of your system because the room modes beyond 50Hz are reasonably well controlled. That's not to say that it's not worth trying additional filters, but because your room almost equates to a cube, I'm sure most of the improvements available within Space will come from applying just the one filter.

Over about 500Hz your room appears to be very lively, with reverberation times of over 1s. It may be worth adding some absorptive materials into the room to bring the reverberation time down a bit.

I would also recommend following the guidelines set out in the Linn Space Optimisation Guide

And as a final reminder, don't use REW to set the filter levels - they have to be set by ear! Also, if you listen to bass quantity, "depth", power, slam or whatever, you will find it really difficult to hear a difference when adjusting by 0.1Hz, for example. However if you listen for differences in the systems tune playing ability, the differences should be quite apparent. This is the real key to setting up Space, and when mastered makes the whole process relatively easy.

It don't mean a thing (If it ain't got that swing)
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2017-08-27, 07:38
Post: #18
RE: I need your advice
And as a small suggestion afterwards: if you have found the correct frequency, you can try to make it thinner to pinpoint the correct frequency further. But if you room has 2 or 3 roommodes very close together that probably won't help (much).

Tin can telephone system.
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