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Exakt Filter Variants
2017-08-21, 19:52
Post: #11
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
(2017-08-21 12:46)Phil Budd (Philbo) Wrote:  
(2017-08-21 12:38)drsean Wrote:  Has your re-examination of the 350 given rise to any learning that could benefit other speakers e.g. Akubariks?

yes.

what about Komris?Rolleyes

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2017-08-21, 21:01
Post: #12
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
(2017-08-21 19:52)fschmeis Wrote:  what about Komris?Rolleyes

Be optimistic. "Other speakers e.g. Akubariks" could include Komris ... Wink

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
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2017-08-21, 21:33 (This post was last modified: 2017-08-21 21:35 by BB1.)
Post: #13
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
First of all, thanks for this very valuable insight, Phil.

It may cause some confusion, that the filter's version numbers implementing the same crossover characteristics do not agree when using different Exaktboxes, although the speaker remains the same. E.g. the version 1.0 filters in my current setup seem to have the same characteristics as version 5.0 running on an AEB 10.

This is just my personal opinion, but I'd prefer if identical (or nearly identical) filters for a speaker share the same version number.

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2017-08-21, 21:57 (This post was last modified: 2017-08-21 22:01 by sunbeamgls.)
Post: #14
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
(2017-08-21 17:58)Baba Yaga Wrote:  Thanks Phil,

much appreciated.
What is interesting though that for the first time I don't agree with 'newer filters are better' and I know a number of people share a similar view. For me 3.0 is much more lively and fun than 6.0.
Any ideas what happened (and why)? I know this is a difficult question but e.g. have you experienced the need to re-adjust the gains or bandwith or anything of that nature with the new filter versions? Or is it just me having clogged ears Big Grin

BY

Given Philbo's explanations, if you're running 350s, your SPACE tweaks may need re-visiting with the new filters. I would suggest having a play with a switch between filters being accompanied with a switch to the accompanying SO setting when making comparisons.

Philbo, thanks for this very enlightening post. The stuff released in late 2015 is much more extensive than I originally understood. For me, that's when Exakt really started to play music and move ahead of analogue active in musical terms so its interesting to see how it was much more than the bass roll-off that contributed to that step forward in musicality.

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2017-08-22, 07:25
Post: #15
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
Some very basic questions: what does roll-on & roll-off mean?! Onset/offset of a filter?! What kind of filter, how steep?!

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2017-08-22, 08:05 (This post was last modified: 2017-08-22 08:07 by sunbeamgls.)
Post: #16
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
Roll-on is the point at which a driver starts to respond to lower fequencies.
Roll-off is the point at which a driver stops responding to higher frequencies.
These are not step changes, but rather a curve of response. So, for example, a bass driver might start to roll-on at 10Hz, but it is inaudible, at 20Hz starts to be audible, by 30Hz is at about half its normal volume output and by 40Hz is running at its normal volume and continues to do so until it starts it roll-off curve, further up the frequency range.

These responses can be the way in which the driver responds to these frequencies as a result of their physical / electrical design and the box they're installed in, known as natural roll-on/off, or could be as a result of the crossover design. The crossover designer can choose to leave a driver/box to its natural response or they can design in a filter which only feeds some of the frequency range to that driver, hence choosing when that drivers rolls on, off or both.

Where this curve is the result of crossover design, the designer chooses the frequency points and steepness of the curve using electrical components in a traditional design or programming instructions for digital filters in Exakt.

Main: AK/0/D; AEDSM; MeiCord AExaktbox10; Silvers 2x A4200/1; K400 NSL Exakt dual-mono PMC Twenty.26; Twenty.C; Blacks AV5125 PMC Twenty.21
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2017-08-22, 08:06
Post: #17
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
(2017-08-22 07:25)mcgillroy Wrote:  Some very basic questions: what does roll-on & roll-off mean?! Onset/offset of a filter?! What kind of filter, how steep?!
Roll-off is the steepness of the decay of a filter with increasing frequency. A first order roll-off will decay with 6dB/octave, a second order will decay with 12dB etc.
So far, it's easy right?
Now, the thing is that higher-order roll-offs seem to be profitable, but they will increase phase shifting: a first order does 90 degrees, a second order will do 180.
There are methods to somewhat compensate for that, even in passive, or Aktiv, crossovers, so all is not necessarily lost, although I have no way of telling if, and to what extend, Linn has done that in theirs.
If you take in account Philbos comment that Exakt is not quite Exakt yet but getting there with each iteration it seems that SunbeamGLS might have very sensitive ears for phase shifting. Which makes it doubly weird as he often seems to have a hard time telling left from right. Smile

As for roll-on, I guess that is just the opposite: the decay with lowering frequencies, or increase with rising frequencies depending on the way you look at it.

So the roll-on takes place at the lowest frequencies of a driver, and roll-off at the highest ones.

This is the simple story as far as I understand it. For more details and math, look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_cros...r_or_slope or wait until Philbo corrects me. Smile

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2017-08-22, 08:44 (This post was last modified: 2017-08-22 08:44 by mcgillroy.)
Post: #18
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
Sorry double post.

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2017-08-22, 09:14 (This post was last modified: 2017-08-22 09:14 by mcgillroy.)
Post: #19
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
Thx Sunbeam & Tin. Basically what I suspected but not familiar with the English nomenclature. Perhaps it would be cool if somebody could write up a walk through one of the XMLs describing a Exakt filter.

Looking at the Kaber variants right now and trying to make sense of the abbreviations and values. Gain is fairly obvious, FN = frequency, but QN, RC, LC, F_ON etc?!

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2017-08-22, 09:22
Post: #20
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
Sounds like you want to go on an Exakt.Design course mcgillroy Wink I assume there is such a thing?

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