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Exakt Filter Variants
2017-08-22, 10:08
Post: #21
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
What Timster says - there's a whole bunch of stuff in there that's not fun to read in XML format. Viewing it in Exakt.Design is the way to look at that data. Go to the site and request a log on.
Not sure if Linn made anything available in terms of training yet though. Even in Exakt.Design, its not straightforward.

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2017-08-22, 10:37
Post: #22
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
Requested a log-on ages ago. No reply, will do again. Guess there is a manual available there?!

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2017-08-22, 11:57
Post: #23
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
(2017-08-22 07:25)mcgillroy Wrote:  Some very basic questions: what does roll-on & roll-off mean?! Onset/offset of a filter?! What kind of filter, how steep?!

McGillroy,
the drive unit models employed in Exakt are quite distinct from any crossovers we may choose to apply.

Traditionally in a loudspeaker the crossover sums with the natural response of a given drive unit to produce the acoustical output. This sum will affect both the magnitude and phase response of the combined driver and crossover. The natural phase response of the drive unit will sum with that of the crossover filter to produce an increase in the rate of change of the phase response. This increase will manifest itself as a larger group delay contribution; a larger time delay at the frequencies affected by the combined roll-on / roll-off of the drive unit and crossover.

In an Exakt system we seek to remove all phase distortion resulting from the drive units and the crossovers. To do this we need to know the natural phase response of the drive units and apply a crossover filter whose phase response is equal and opposite to that of the drive unit it feeds.

The natural roll-on and roll-off of a drive unit (both magnitude and phase) are reasonably well defined by the electrical impedance of the drive unit. Take a look at this manufacturers specification for a tweeter:

Tweeter

The graph shows the axial frequency response (as well as at 30 and 60 degrees), and the electrical input impedance of the tweeter. The tweeter exhibits a second order roll-on (~12dB / octave) at low frequency, and an approximate first order roll-off (~6dB / octave) at high frequency.

The roll-on can be modeled based on the electrical impedance by assessing the frequency and bandwidth of the resonance. The roll-off can be modeled by assessing the inductive rise of the impedance measurement as frequency increases.

This type of analysis forms the general model of any drive unit within Exakt. The introduction of 'Independent drive unit modelling' allowed us to treat the roll-on and roll-off separately and choose whether we corrected for the magnitude and phase, or the phase only, for either end of the drive unit response.

Take a look at another (less) hard dome tweeter:

Tweeter 2

Here we can see a large peak in the response at high frequency. This peak does not manifest itself in the electrical impedance so cannot be captured in the general model of the drive unit. Instead, assuming the aberration is consistent from one tweeter to the next, we could choose to correct for it based on an acoustical measurement. This forms the basis of any 'extended drive unit modelling'.

Hope this helps to clarify.

Phil.
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2017-08-22, 12:08
Post: #24
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
(2017-08-21 18:56)Martin H Wrote:  Thanks Phil

So is the reason that I only see 2 filter options on my 350s because I have upgraded to Katalyst and the original filters of 1-5 don't apply any more? Obviously I can't truly remember any more but I do remember being gutted when it went from 3.0 to the next one because it was a definite dip for me which couldn't be reclaimed by Space changes etc. I think it was the one before 3.0 somehow pushed something in the mid range right back but 3.0 just made everything sing. As I say I am on Katalyst 350 now and the last change was an uplift. Still think (for different reasons) there is some tweaking to do as I have lost those perfect female vocals but I do think that's a Space issue.

i.e.
1 - independent highest frequency modelling
and
2 - Extended drive modelling

Just bumping my question because I think it's been lost Smile
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2017-08-22, 12:16
Post: #25
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
I don't want to jump in with the wrong info Martin, but I think it's more to do with compatibility with the Exakt firmware than Katalyst itself. I imagine only 5 and 6 apply to anyone using the latest firmware. In my case for the 140s, I only have filter 5.0 as an option because any filters before that only work with older firmware.

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2017-08-22, 12:31
Post: #26
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
(2017-08-22 12:16)timster Wrote:  I don't want to jump in with the wrong info Martin, but I think it's more to do with compatibility with the Exakt firmware than Katalyst itself. I imagine only 5 and 6 apply to anyone using the latest firmware. In my case for the 140s, I only have filter 5.0 as an option because any filters before that only work with older firmware.

I am not on outdated software though if that's what you mean. I am on the latest release software and I 'believe' the latest hardware. I had filters 3, 4 and 5 before. Maybe 6 - I really don't know but the others I remember.
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2017-08-22, 12:48
Post: #27
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
(2017-08-22 12:16)timster Wrote:  I think it's more to do with compatibility with the Exakt firmware than Katalyst itself.

Weren't there changes to the firmware (both DS and Exaktbox) to accommodate Katalyst? If so, is this a meaningful distinction?

David

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2017-08-22, 13:46
Post: #28
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
(2017-08-22 12:31)Martin H Wrote:  
(2017-08-22 12:16)timster Wrote:  I don't want to jump in with the wrong info Martin, but I think it's more to do with compatibility with the Exakt firmware than Katalyst itself. I imagine only 5 and 6 apply to anyone using the latest firmware. In my case for the 140s, I only have filter 5.0 as an option because any filters before that only work with older firmware.

I am not on outdated software though if that's what you mean. I am on the latest release software and I 'believe' the latest hardware. I had filters 3, 4 and 5 before. Maybe 6 - I really don't know but the others I remember.

I was only going by what Jossh has said about filter variants:
Quote:You will only ever be offered filter options that are fully compatible with the latest version of all the other components, as these will never be downgraded.

I think this post needs a sticky too, so as this thread is, here it is!
Jossh's Explanation of What Variant Options Are Offered

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2017-08-22, 13:50
Post: #29
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
(2017-08-22 12:08)Martin H Wrote:  
(2017-08-21 18:56)Martin H Wrote:  So is the reason that I only see 2 filter options on my 350s because I have upgraded to Katalyst and the original filters of 1-5 don't apply any more?

Just bumping my question because I think it's been lost Smile

Just to state the obvious... In Konfig settings (the cog symbol next to the Linn logo, top right), have you selected 'Show filter variant versions'? Also what other settings do you have selected?

Phil.
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2017-08-22, 14:53 (This post was last modified: 2017-08-22 14:54 by Martin H.)
Post: #30
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
(2017-08-22 13:50)Phil Budd (Philbo) Wrote:  
(2017-08-22 12:08)Martin H Wrote:  
(2017-08-21 18:56)Martin H Wrote:  So is the reason that I only see 2 filter options on my 350s because I have upgraded to Katalyst and the original filters of 1-5 don't apply any more?

Just bumping my question because I think it's been lost Smile

Just to state the obvious... In Konfig settings (the cog symbol next to the Linn logo, top right), have you selected 'Show filter variant versions'? Also what other settings do you have selected?

Phil.

Phil - yes thanks (dumb questions are a good thing not a bad thing) that is selected and as per the earlier post I get a drop down box under Exakt that allows me to switch between either

1 - independent highest frequency modelling
and
2 - Extended drive modelling

So I can't see options for filter version 3, 4, 5 or 6 that others with 350s are referencing. My question was - why? My assumption had been something to do with the Katalyst upgrade.


.pdf  konfig screen.pdf (Size: 166.7 KB / Downloads: 26)
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