Linn Forums

Current time: 2017-10-21, 02:00 Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Linn Forums / Linn Music Systems & Hi-fi Separates / Network Music Players & Music Streamers / Exakt v / Exakt Filter Variants

Post Reply 
Exakt Filter Variants
2017-08-22, 15:00
Post: #31
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
That is peculiar Martin. Extended drive unit modelling is actually filter 6.0. Independent highest frequency modelling is 5.0. I think it's safe to assume you do actually have them, but the numbers are wrong.

Akurate EDSM | Majik ExaktBox-I [on Custom Design iRAPs] | Majik 140, REL T5
Rega RP1, [DS214play +Jitterbug, MinimServer], Kazoo [Linx1010]

AV: Marantz NR1506 | B&W 652(C), M1(S), REL T5 (LFE) | Fronts powered by Linn
Net: NetGear DGN2200 | GS108 | AQ Forest x3

Hello to Jason Isaacs
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-08-22, 15:03
Post: #32
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
(2017-08-22 15:00)timster Wrote:  That is peculiar Martin. Extended drive unit modelling is actually filter 6.0. Independent highest frequency modelling is 5.0. I think it's safe to assume you do actually have them, but the numbers are wrong.

Right - that makes some sense of it but the previous filters of 3.0 (which is the one I would have been interested to try isn't there and I assume that is due to the hardware changes etc. But that's a guess and hopefully Phil can confirm.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-08-22, 15:06 (This post was last modified: 2017-08-22 15:08 by Stu.)
Post: #33
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
(2017-08-22 12:08)Martin H Wrote:  
(2017-08-21 18:56)Martin H Wrote:  Thanks Phil

So is the reason that I only see 2 filter options on my 350s because I have upgraded to Katalyst and the original filters of 1-5 don't apply any more? Obviously I can't truly remember any more but I do remember being gutted when it went from 3.0 to the next one because it was a definite dip for me which couldn't be reclaimed by Space changes etc. I think it was the one before 3.0 somehow pushed something in the mid range right back but 3.0 just made everything sing. As I say I am on Katalyst 350 now and the last change was an uplift. Still think (for different reasons) there is some tweaking to do as I have lost those perfect female vocals but I do think that's a Space issue.

i.e.
1 - independent highest frequency modelling
and
2 - Extended drive modelling

Just bumping my question because I think it's been lost Smile

Martin, I would say yes as I only see two filter variants 1.0 and 2.0 after upgrade to Katalyst (with Konfig show variants box ticked)
I think we are on a different path now.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-08-22, 17:20
Post: #34
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
(2017-08-22 15:00)timster Wrote:  That is peculiar Martin. Extended drive unit modelling is actually filter 6.0. Independent highest frequency modelling is 5.0. I think it's safe to assume you do actually have them, but the numbers are wrong.

That's why I wrote:

(2017-08-21 21:33)BB1 Wrote:  It may cause some confusion, that the filter's version numbers implementing the same crossover characteristics do not agree when using different Exaktboxes, although the speaker remains the same. E.g. the version 1.0 filters in my current setup seem to have the same characteristics as version 5.0 running on an AEB 10.

It most likely would have caused less confusion, if the first release of the Katalyst filters (implementing 'independent highest frequency modeling') had the version number 5.0.

AEDSM > KEB/1 x 2 > Linn Silvers > A4200/1 x 2 > K200 > MISOs
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-08-22, 17:38
Post: #35
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
(2017-08-22 17:20)BB1 Wrote:  
(2017-08-22 15:00)timster Wrote:  That is peculiar Martin. Extended drive unit modelling is actually filter 6.0. Independent highest frequency modelling is 5.0. I think it's safe to assume you do actually have them, but the numbers are wrong.

That's why I wrote:

(2017-08-21 21:33)BB1 Wrote:  It may cause some confusion, that the filter's version numbers implementing the same crossover characteristics do not agree when using different Exaktboxes, although the speaker remains the same. E.g. the version 1.0 filters in my current setup seem to have the same characteristics as version 5.0 running on an AEB 10.

It most likely would have caused less confusion, if the first release of the Katalyst filters (implementing 'independent highest frequency modeling') had the version number 5.0.
I think those filters will be diverging anyway, so I doubt it would really matter.

Tin can telephone system.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-08-22, 17:40
Post: #36
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
Thanks for the info from everyone.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-08-23, 09:37
Post: #37
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
big thank you to linn. Glad to learn exakt becomes better and better.

Akurate LP12 + Akubarik Exakt
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-08-23, 09:48
Post: #38
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
(2017-08-22 11:57)Phil Budd (Philbo) Wrote:  
(2017-08-22 07:25)mcgillroy Wrote:  Some very basic questions: what does roll-on & roll-off mean?! Onset/offset of a filter?! What kind of filter, how steep?!

McGillroy,
the drive unit models employed in Exakt are quite distinct from any crossovers we may choose to apply.

Traditionally in a loudspeaker the crossover sums with the natural response of a given drive unit to produce the acoustical output. This sum will affect both the magnitude and phase response of the combined driver and crossover. The natural phase response of the drive unit will sum with that of the crossover filter to produce an increase in the rate of change of the phase response. This increase will manifest itself as a larger group delay contribution; a larger time delay at the frequencies affected by the combined roll-on / roll-off of the drive unit and crossover.

In an Exakt system we seek to remove all phase distortion resulting from the drive units and the crossovers. To do this we need to know the natural phase response of the drive units and apply a crossover filter whose phase response is equal and opposite to that of the drive unit it feeds.

The natural roll-on and roll-off of a drive unit (both magnitude and phase) are reasonably well defined by the electrical impedance of the drive unit. Take a look at this manufacturers specification for a tweeter:

Tweeter

The graph shows the axial frequency response (as well as at 30 and 60 degrees), and the electrical input impedance of the tweeter. The tweeter exhibits a second order roll-on (~12dB / octave) at low frequency, and an approximate first order roll-off (~6dB / octave) at high frequency.

The roll-on can be modeled based on the electrical impedance by assessing the frequency and bandwidth of the resonance. The roll-off can be modeled by assessing the inductive rise of the impedance measurement as frequency increases.

This type of analysis forms the general model of any drive unit within Exakt. The introduction of 'Independent drive unit modelling' allowed us to treat the roll-on and roll-off separately and choose whether we corrected for the magnitude and phase, or the phase only, for either end of the drive unit response.

Take a look at another (less) hard dome tweeter:

Tweeter 2

Here we can see a large peak in the response at high frequency. This peak does not manifest itself in the electrical impedance so cannot be captured in the general model of the drive unit. Instead, assuming the aberration is consistent from one tweeter to the next, we could choose to correct for it based on an acoustical measurement. This forms the basis of any 'extended drive unit modelling'.

Hope this helps to clarify.

Phil.

Any chance we will se a #6 filter for the older 242:s? They do after all share the same pod units with the newer iteration speakers don't they?
Feeling a little left out hereSad.

-a

Apple Power Mac G5 Server - Chord - AEDSM - Chord - AExaktbox10 - Linn Silvers - 4200 / 2x 3100 (5100 w 2 channels removed) - K400 / K600 crimped bananas - 242s Solid Stands
- Exaktbox Sub- Linn Silvers - 2x221 Sub
LP12 w Linn stuff & SmokeD LiD
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-08-23, 12:28
Post: #39
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
(2017-08-22 11:57)Phil Budd (Philbo) Wrote:  
(2017-08-22 07:25)mcgillroy Wrote:  Some very basic questions: what does roll-on & roll-off mean?! Onset/offset of a filter?! What kind of filter, how steep?!

McGillroy,
the drive unit models employed in Exakt are quite distinct from any crossovers we may choose to apply.

(...)

Hope this helps to clarify.

Phil.

Thx very much - will play around with Exakt Design a bit. Have built a few loudspeaker (& amp) kits and am somewhat familiar with simple crossover designs.

Concerning the Kaber: roll-on is ca. 82hz. Pretty high considering an active Kaber is listed with a -6db point @40hz. Could you explain these parameters and what would be the in-room -3db point in an Exakted Kaber?

http://www.last.fm/user/mcgillroy

MDSM/2 - 6100/D - active Kabers - Nubert 441w sub + Qobuz Sublime.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-08-23, 13:03
Post: #40
RE: Exakt Filter Variants
(2017-08-23 12:28)mcgillroy Wrote:  Thx very much - will play around with Exakt Design a bit. Have built a few loudspeaker (& amp) kits and am somewhat familiar with simple crossover designs.

Concerning the Kaber: roll-on is ca. 82hz. Pretty high considering an active Kaber is listed with a -6db point @40hz. Could you explain these parameters and what would be the in-room -3db point in an Exakted Kaber?

The resonance of the bass driver in the cabinet is 82 Hz and that does indeed define the natural -3 dB frequency of the driver in its cabinet. The - 6 dB point is around 74 Hz with no augmentation.

However, as the cabinet is sealed and forms a pretty stiff air spring behind the unit, it is quite viable to add gain below this frequency to extend the low frequency performance of the speaker without risk of damage to the unit. This was done in both the Aktiv and Exakt designs.

The Exakt design has a - 6 dB point at about 50 Hz in free space so will be expected to be around 35 Hz in room.

Phil.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)