Linn Forums

Current time: 2017-10-22, 21:50 Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Linn Forums / Getting Started / Ask a Question v / Sub for 109s

Post Reply 
Sub for 109s
2017-08-27, 17:39
Post: #11
RE: Sub for 109s
(2017-08-24 13:33)Tin Wrote:  
(2017-08-24 11:25)timster Wrote:  
(2017-08-24 11:11)Tin Wrote:  There is a reason however that I have continued buying old RELs instead of new BK ones: I think the crossover starting at 40Hz is too high. It could work with passive 109s, and will obviously work with Exakt which will take over the crossover, but I put the crossover at 22Hz with my Aktiv 212s and wouldn't want to have to put it any higher.

40Hz? That really is quite a high starting point for a sub. The little T5 starts at 23 FYI (how many extra octaves that equates to is... 1 (ish I think)?).
What David said. Smile
The sub itself would start at 17Hz (-6dB) or so.

I think it is weird though, why would you have a crossover start to crossover at 40Hz, anyone with full size speakers would prefer a much, much lower frequency.


Stasia: if you can find a second hand Rel Stampede, Strata V or Storm V, I can full heartedly recommend those.
They look the same as the BK Elek ones (actually, its the other way around).
I do recommend the BK's in Exakt environments where Exakt takes care of the crossovers.

I'm also leaning BK because of manufacturing....Perhaps a older second hand REL would still be made in the UK, but I don't love the idea of an REL manufactured in China
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-08-27, 17:42
Post: #12
RE: Sub for 109s
Well, REL used to have the Quake next to the Stampede, Strata and other St-models.
The Gemini seems to be placed next to the 200, 300, .. etc.
The Quake was just too tiny to pack a punch. It just wasn't big enough, it was the little engiine that couldn't, not even in a small room. The listening room at the dealers was about 3×3m.
The Strata however is a powerhouse that can easily fill my normal sized living room.

Another reason is that a sub may not be able to give its full potential when it isn't located in the correct position, where ever that may be in your room. It can be neccesary to increase the volume a bit if you want to place it somewhere where it suits you. Having some power to spare can be helpful.


Thirdly I suspect your room is covered with bubblewrap and cushioning material like Paulssurrounds, so that will require some extra oompf too. Big Grin

Tin can telephone system.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-08-27, 17:56
Post: #13
RE: Sub for 109s
(2017-08-27 17:42)Tin Wrote:  Well, REL used to have the Quake next to the Stampede, Strata and other St-models.
The Gemini seems to be placed next to the 200, 300, .. etc.
The Quake was just too tiny to pack a punch. It just wasn't big enough, it was the little engiine that couldn't, not even in a small room. The listening room at the dealers was about 3×3m.
The Strata however is a powerhouse that can easily fill my normal sized living room.

Another reason is that a sub may not be able to give its full potential when it isn't located in the correct position, where ever that may be in your room. It can be neccesary to increase the volume a bit if you want to place it somewhere where it suits you. Having some power to spare can be helpful.


Thirdly I suspect your room is covered with bubblewrap and cushioning material like Paulssurrounds, so that will require some extra oompf too. Big Grin

First, I feel very jealous that you have dealers with listening rooms. I am in the middle of nowhere comparatively and so everything is order and try. My local "dealer" does not have anything I am interested in even in stock. So, my listening room is my living room. BK will accept returns (which is amazing!) and I would loose $ on shipping only if it does not work out.

My room is absolutely not covered in bubblewrap or cushioning, but we will see what happens after Paulssurrounds comes through Big Grin.....He will be here the second week of September. My living room may need a major makeover following. Everything has been moved so many times already that I am not committing to re-hanging art until after he leaves. Such disarray. Small(ish) sacrifice for hifi

My appreciation again for your feedback
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-08-27, 18:42
Post: #14
RE: Sub for 109s
Don't be too jealous. The only reason they had REL in those days is because that was a very popular brand back then, and they only carried the Quake and Strata.
They did have a nice collection of Cambridge Audio and Linn back though, but at that time most of the equipment was way outside my comfort zone.

For Dutch standards I'm in the middle of nowhere too btw, but as the Netherlands is somewhat smaller than most countries, or even some cities, it is less of an inconvenience.

Er.. if you know where you want to put your furniture, please put it there before Pauls visit: whatever your plans are, they will change the acoustic behavior of your room, so Pauls work will be undone.
So go to Costo as soon as you can and buy all of their bubble wrap.

Tin can telephone system.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-08-27, 18:53
Post: #15
RE: Sub for 109s
(2017-08-27 18:42)Tin Wrote:  Er.. if you know where you want to put your furniture, please put it there before Pauls visit: whatever your plans are, they will change the acoustic behavior of your room, so Pauls work will be undone.
So go to Costo as soon as you can and buy all of their bubble wrap.

Of course! Makes sense, thanks for the tip. Mostly settled, may need to seriously consider one new love seat prior to his arrival and I suppose the art also needs re-hung ahead, as nuanced as his changes are. I'm having a very hard time imagining this bubble wrap situation....I don't think I'm hard-core enough to tolerate any visible bubble wrap having any prominent placing anywhere in my space....Pics of others who do/are welcome...Big Grin
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-08-27, 19:00
Post: #16
RE: Sub for 109s
I'm sure Paul will be thrilled to know you plan to buy a love seat just for him. Big Grin

Anyway.. what about Tin-foil?

Tin can telephone system.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-08-27, 19:06
Post: #17
RE: Sub for 109s
(2017-08-27 19:00)Tin Wrote:  I'm sure Paul will be thrilled to know you plan to buy a love seat just for him. Big Grin

Anyway.. what about Tin-foil?

Tin-foil!?!? What! I want to see pics if this is a reality for anyone.....Wink
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-08-27, 19:10
Post: #18
RE: Sub for 109s
(2017-08-27 19:06)StasiaO Wrote:  
(2017-08-27 19:00)Tin Wrote:  I'm sure Paul will be thrilled to know you plan to buy a love seat just for him. Big Grin

Anyway.. what about Tin-foil?

Tin-foil!?!? What! I want to see pics if this is a reality for anyone.....Wink

Oh boy. Now you've done it Sad
Wink

Akurate EDSM | Majik ExaktBox-I [on Custom Design iRAPs] | Majik 140, REL T5
Rega RP1, [DS214play +Jitterbug, MinimServer], Kazoo [Linx1010]

AV: Marantz NR1506 | B&W 652(C), M1(S), REL T5 (LFE) | Fronts powered by Linn
Net: NetGear DGN2200 | GS108 | AQ Forest x3

Hello to Jason Isaacs
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-09-04, 08:47
Post: #19
RE: Sub for 109s
https://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=37558

Tin foil discussed here.

MDSM/2, 6100/D, both draining into large Ikea Aptitligs, bi-aktiv Ninkas(steel bases), K600 and silvers.
Sennheiser HD650's, Aune X7s
Asus AC88U router, Synology 215j(Minimserver), ASUS VivoMini HTPC.
Oppo 105D, Panasonic TC-P50ST60 plasma, VIZIO S4251w-B4 soundbar
Kazoo on Android(s)
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-09-05, 17:27 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-05 17:45 by Briain.)
Post: #20
RE: Sub for 109s
(2017-08-24 11:11)Tin Wrote:  There is a reason however that I have continued buying old RELs instead of new BK ones: I think the crossover starting at 40Hz is too high. It could work with passive 109s, and will obviously work with Exakt which will take over the crossover, but I put the crossover at 22Hz with my Aktiv 212s and wouldn't want to have to put it any higher.

Hi Tin

I was looking at the BH advert on eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/372053591859) and after scrolling down, I noticed a very interesting comment in the small text:

The text from the BH Ad on eBay Wrote:Due to customer demand the new XLS200-DF MK2 now incorporates a filter bypass switch that allows the bass management of your AV Processor to manage the bass frequencies for home theatre work leaving the the XLS200's built in filtering to deal with the bass management on the High Level Input for Hi-Fi use.

After reading your post, I was pondering how easy it might (or might not) be to open it up, bypass the filters and build my own, but that text implies that when using the low level input, you can simply bypass the internal filter and thus it could be ideal for use with a miniDSP, or Exaktbox sub, or an external analogue filter.

I had planned to revise (or perhaps even disband) my bedroom system (I don't use it that much and the dark finish of my 212's didn't match the furniture, nor did they suit the custom oak stands atop which they sit) but I have sold my 212's to a good friend and just bought some maple ones (with black 3 K Arrays; they are now on the way) and after finding out the price of that sub and noticing the above filter bypass switch, I am pondering getting one of these XLS200-DF MK2 subs, just to find out what it sounds like (and if the internal filter parameters are unsuited to my requirements, that bypass switch means I could knock up a bespoke filter and fit it in line with the low level feed). Not only would it be fun playing with home-brew filters, but with it being so small, it would sit nicely behind the comfy chair in my bedroom, just to make a low level contribution to the system (and it would still be very close to one of the 212s, so time alignment should be achieved) so for me, it really does tick quite a few boxes.

I also plan to soon visit another friend with 212s (and I'd planned play with SO and bass shelf to optimise the system) but at the very reasonable price, that sub provides rather an intriguing option for his system, and in his room, I could locate it at the back then use a miniDSP to set the roll-off parameters and to time align it to his 212s (just as I am currently doing with the rear 345 sub in my lounge) so that could all be quite fun to play with.

If I do end up get one for myself (or my friend gets one) I will post back with my findings (and just for some fun, if I get one for myself, I can also try it out in my lounge system, fed from the miniDSP and with its internal filter switched out).

Bri Smile

KDS/1 (music) + ADSM (AV) -> KK/1 -> 350A + miniDSP time & phase aligned 345 rear sub
KDS Renew -> Homebrew fixed attenuator -> 2250/D -> 212 and Sizmik front sub (bedroom)
MDSI -> 104C (awaiting installation in my kitchen)
MDSI -> Shahinian Arc (installed at my mum's house)
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)