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Sub for 109s
2017-09-14, 11:01
Post: #31
RE: Sub for 109s
(2017-09-14 10:02)timster Wrote:  
(2017-09-14 09:56)jail4ceos2 Wrote:  Will SPACE need to be redone once the BK arrives?
Yup. Add the sub to the room and re-optimize.

... losing all Paul's adjustments in the process, so they need to be saved first. I'd be interested to know how Paul thinks things should go from there. Keep his original settings (the room hasn't changed) and just install the sub? Or go through the process all over again, no doubt with Paul advising remotely as needed.

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
Second system: Kiko
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2017-09-30, 18:29 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-30 18:33 by StasiaO.)
Post: #32
RE: Sub for 109s
(2017-09-06 00:38)jail4ceos2 Wrote:  I hope Paul puts some comments here about his feelings on the BKElec Gemini sub StasiaO ordered. I have been thinking about one for a while, and I'm curious if it passes the audition given it's humble pricing.

As you probably know by now, sadly it did not arrive in time. Not even in the ballpark actually. Now I have some work do do unpacking and hooking it up without Paul's expertise. I'm feeling less motivated to get this done now that my speakers sound the way the now do after Paul's visit. The results are truly incredible

(2017-09-14 10:02)timster Wrote:  
(2017-09-14 09:56)jail4ceos2 Wrote:  I'm happy you got it done, but deeply saddened you didn't hear the BK. They remain an enigma. Will SPACE need to be redone once the BK arrives?

Yup. Add the sub to the room and re-optimize.

Well, coaxing Paul back may be in order. I told John none of us can move now and John's simple reply was we will just have him back. Maybe making our beautiful corner of the world a regular rotation.
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2017-09-30, 18:34
Post: #33
RE: Sub for 109s
(2017-09-14 11:01)DavidHB Wrote:  
(2017-09-14 10:02)timster Wrote:  
(2017-09-14 09:56)jail4ceos2 Wrote:  Will SPACE need to be redone once the BK arrives?
Yup. Add the sub to the room and re-optimize.

... losing all Paul's adjustments in the process, so they need to be saved first. I'd be interested to know how Paul thinks things should go from there. Keep his original settings (the room hasn't changed) and just install the sub? Or go through the process all over again, no doubt with Paul advising remotely as needed.

David

I have Paul's settings saved in multiple places. Like gold stashed away. Such. A. Bummer. about the sub.....
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2017-09-30, 21:28 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-30 21:29 by DavidHB.)
Post: #34
RE: Sub for 109s
(2017-09-30 18:34)StasiaO Wrote:  I have Paul's settings saved in multiple places. Like gold stashed away. Such. A. Bummer. about the sub.....

You really need to get yourself the best of both worlds. Smile In the meantime, the best is undoubtedly the enemy of the good.

My dealer, Chris of Hidden Systems, is (I think) known to Paul, and uses at least some of his methodology. The benefit to my system of Chris's adjustments was as good as a system upgrade, but, ironically, it also paved the way for a fairly expensive change of DSM. SO and Exakt working better downstream justified a change of source upstream.

I loved the 109s when I had them; a measure of their quality is that, in my case, it took a pair of Akubariks to replace them. But in my system (ADSM/1 and A2200 amplifier at that time) they undoubtedly benefited from being used with the REL T1 sub I had then. I used a sub for over 20 years, so long before the days of streaming and SO.

One option you do have is to try connecting the sub in your system. Particularly if you can place it reasonably near to one of your speakers, you might be able to adjust it conventionally in accordance with the manufacturer's guidance, without changing any of Paul's settings for your 109s. The room has not changed, after all. While this is not ideal, it is probably better than trying to start again from scratch. And it is reversible; you can always disconnect the sub if you do not like the results.

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
Second system: Kiko
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2017-10-01, 05:46 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-01 05:48 by Paulssurround.)
Post: #35
RE: Sub for 109s
(2017-09-14 11:01)DavidHB Wrote:  
(2017-09-14 10:02)timster Wrote:  
(2017-09-14 09:56)jail4ceos2 Wrote:  Will SPACE need to be redone once the BK arrives?
Yup. Add the sub to the room and re-optimize.

... losing all Paul's adjustments in the process, so they need to be saved first. I'd be interested to know how Paul thinks things should go from there. Keep his original settings (the room hasn't changed) and just install the sub? Or go through the process all over again, no doubt with Paul advising remotely as needed.

David

I understand John will install the BK sub tomorrow at Stasia’s place.

Initially, he will retain the Space optimization settings, and just install the sub, then listen to how it sounds.

If the sub is set up so the sub adds just a subtle amount of bass to enhance the low frequency, I am hoping no further adjustments need to be made to Space settings.

Because, Stacia’s Linn system is not Exakt, she can try adding the sub without adding the sub in the Konfig settings for room optimization.

When we set up Dennis’s system with his 109’s, Majik DSi and REL T2 Sub, the sub integrated seamlessly. I actually reduced the gain on the sub so it would just add a small amount of bass, and it sounded most excellent.

Otherwise, I may be back in Montana. Smile


(2017-09-30 21:28)DavidHB Wrote:  
(2017-09-30 18:34)StasiaO Wrote:  I have Paul's settings saved in multiple places. Like gold stashed away. Such. A. Bummer. about the sub.....

You really need to get yourself the best of both worlds. Smile In the meantime, the best is undoubtedly the enemy of the good.

My dealer, Chris of Hidden Systems, is (I think) known to Paul, and uses at least some of his methodology. The benefit to my system of Chris's adjustments was as good as a system upgrade, but, ironically, it also paved the way for a fairly expensive change of DSM. SO and Exakt working better downstream justified a change of source upstream.

I loved the 109s when I had them; a measure of their quality is that, in my case, it took a pair of Akubariks to replace them. But in my system (ADSM/1 and A2200 amplifier at that time) they undoubtedly benefited from being used with the REL T1 sub I had then. I used a sub for over 20 years, so long before the days of streaming and SO.

One option you do have is to try connecting the sub in your system. Particularly if you can place it reasonably near to one of your speakers, you might be able to adjust it conventionally in accordance with the manufacturer's guidance, without changing any of Paul's settings for your 109s. The room has not changed, after all. While this is not ideal, it is probably better than trying to start again from scratch. And it is reversible; you can always disconnect the sub if you do not like the results.

David

Excellent advice David.

I did finally meet Chris from Hidden Systems in May.

Great guy, and great Linn store

Exakt Surround 5.0:
Katalyst Akubariks, AEDSM, Akurate Exaktbox 6/4200 for 225 Centre, Majik Exaktbox I for 212 Surrounds, OPPO 105 on StillPoints.
Power: Environmental Potentials 2460, Shunyata Triton, Zitron Cobras, Alpha Digitals
Room Acoustics: SPACE, SubDude HT's, Acoustic Panels
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