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A wet Wednesday with plenty of surprises
2017-09-12, 01:23 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-12 01:26 by DavidHB.)
Post: #141
RE: A wet Wednesday with plenty of surprises
(2017-09-11 21:57)Music at Home Wrote:  If ExaktLink was essentially bitstream, rather than a packet based system with checksums, re-transmissions, etc., then I can see how that would overcome one tricky problem, that of perfectly aligning the audio between two (or more) Exaktboxes or integrated speakers, an issue that could be introduced by an error correcting protocol. However, as hinted in my previous post, with bitstream we'd be in the territory of the discussions of yesteryear regarding transports and DAC's where the bits-is-bits argument was pretty much done and dusted and more or less concluded that transports can have an impact on a DAC's performance, despite delivering bit perfect data.

The trouble with the bits-is-bits argument, then and now, is that it takes no account of timing and noise issues, as well as somewhat obscuring the possibility that those bits may be a less than faithful representation of the analogue original. To do what they do, the E-DSMs must have pretty much the same reference clocking capabilities as the Exakt engines downstream. The master clock is presumably in the Exakt engine, but I guess that there has to be some means by which the clocks are synchronised and the stream locked to the master clock. Along with that will go whatever the DSM does to keep its own noise level low and inhibit the tendency of noise arriving from elsewhere to find its way into the Exakt engine and thence into the analogue domain.

(2017-09-11 21:57)Music at Home Wrote:  By coy, I was meaning Linn's coyness in coming out and saying there is a performance hierarchy between Exakt sources. If bitstream, it seems reasonably obvious that there would be. Perhaps they were wrong-footed by initial Exakt marketing which implied Exakt eliminated the influence of everything upstream of the (Exakt) speaker, or what would be an Exaktbox now (Exaktboxes didn't exist then). That line of thinking has gone from current marketing literature, yet as far as I know, it's still never been stated or implied (by Linn) that a KEDSM performs better than an AEDSM (other than as an Analog to Digital converter).

Let's compare two pieces of Linn marketing-speak:

Klimax: "Engineered to preserve every last musical detail, the Klimax Exakt DSM player gives you access to networked music in the highest quality possible, from Studio Master downloads to streaming services and internet radio."

Akurate:"Browse your digital music library, stream online music and video and hear movie soundtracks, all in exceptional detail. This Akurate network music player connects to virtually any music or audio source in your home and plays it flawlessly."

I grant you that it's all carefully hidden in the smooth wording, but the Klimax is identified as the top of the range product, providing "the highest quality possible".

I also agree that the original marketing of Exakt was inept (did the marketeers not know that Exaktboxes were in development?). During the wet Wednesday session, Chris, Gonzo and I were agreed that Linn wrong-footed themselves by selling Exakt as a new concept (which nobody, including the hi-fi press, understood at first), when the range as it then was could have been positioned as a development of familiar concepts. Start off (I know the actual timing was not quite right for this, but bear with me) with, "We have replaced the Klimax Kontrol with our new pre-amplifier, which is also the latest version of our top of the range Klimax DSM. You get a better performing pre-amplifier with all the analogue and digital connectivity you need, and our best streaming player is included for good measure." From there, you can go to, "We have taken our best integrated Aktiv speakers to a new level by giving them inbuilt digital capabilities and digital connectivity. To complement these new speakers, we are introducing a new pre-amplifier, with all the inputs and functions of our top of the range Klimax DSM, but with digital outputs to connect to the new speakers."

It didn't happen, of course ...

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
Second system: Kiko
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2017-09-12, 09:28 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-12 09:29 by sunbeamgls.)
Post: #142
RE: A wet Wednesday with plenty of surprises
I didn't know it was possible to deliver something of higher quality than something that is already flawless. Marketing babble and not evidence I'm afraid David.

However, there is clear evidence in the above post that think they should employ you for their next marketing campaign!

It is worth noting that Linn are happy to demonstrate the benefits of KEDSM over AEDSM and have done so in their own dem rooms at the factory, regardless of the marketing.

Main: AK/0/D; AEDSM; MeiCord AExaktbox10; Silvers 2x A4200/1; K400 NSL Exakt dual-mono PMC Twenty.26; Twenty.C; Blacks AV5125 PMC Twenty.21
Playroom: SBT; V-DAC1; Cyrus6; M773e
Garage: SBT/Rega DAC; Arcam AVR100; 2x AV5125; Aktiv Ninkas, Trikan, AVSeKretan
www.audiophilemusings.co.uk
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2017-09-12, 09:51 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-13 20:40 by DavidHB.)
Post: #143
RE: A wet Wednesday with plenty of surprises
I'm
(2017-09-12 09:28)sunbeamgls Wrote:  I didn't know it was possible to deliver something of higher quality than something that is already flawless. Marketing babble and not evidence I'm afraid David.

Not what you and I would call evidence about the product, that's for sure. But babble always says a lot (most of it unintended) about the babbler. My point was that the evident desire to communicate and not to communicate at the same time is very telling.

(2017-09-12 09:28)sunbeamgls Wrote:  However, there is clear evidence in the above post that think they should employ you for their next marketing campaign!

Perish the thought!

(2017-09-12 09:28)sunbeamgls Wrote:  It is worth noting that Linn are happy to demonstrate the benefits of KEDSM over AEDSM and have done so in their own dem rooms at the factory, regardless of the marketing.

That's interesting, but not a surprise. Linn are not the only company I have come across where marketing don't seem to be marching in step with the rest of the organisation. My guess is that, at first, they didn't 'get' Exakt either, so they invented a story that they could live with and was (they thought) good Linn-speak. The fact that they bury the Exaktboxes so deep in the 'Upgrades' section of the website shows that they don't really know how to market product to the enthusiast community. Fortunately, they have technical colleagues who can do that for them.

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
Second system: Kiko
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2017-09-17, 13:36
Post: #144
RE: A wet Wednesday with plenty of surprises
All quiet

Exakt 5.1
Klimax Exakt 350 Katalyst Melco N1Z anniversary Melodik sub Akurate 225 centre Akurate 4200 Akurate Exactbox 6 Akudorik Exakt Oppo UDP-205
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2017-09-19, 14:01
Post: #145
RE: A wet Wednesday with plenty of surprises
(2017-09-17 13:36)nrwatson Wrote:  All quiet

Yup. To busy listening (when not travelling to mainland). There is more to come ...

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
Second system: Kiko
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2017-09-20, 10:05
Post: #146
RE: A wet Wednesday with plenty of surprises
The suspense is killing me! I was there and I'm still in the dark over what new gear you've bought! Sounds like the new toys are doing the job though, more time for music = less time forum posting!.....better sound is ultimately what we all want after all!

G

KEDSM and Katalyst Exakt 350s. Sekrit DSi Kudos and Diskreets In Bedroom, 520 Exakt system in Garden room. Sekrit DSi and Tukans, Sneaky DS and Kef Eggs in storage.
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2017-09-20, 11:30
Post: #147
RE: A wet Wednesday with plenty of surprises
(2017-09-20 10:05)Gonzo Wrote:  The suspense is killing me! I was there and I'm still in the dark over what new gear you've bought! Sounds like the new toys are doing the job though, more time for music = less time forum posting!.....better sound is ultimately what we all want after all!

G
Davids signature explains perfectly what he bought; a Lejonklou phono-pre and a KEDSM to replace his ADSM.
I'm not so sure about the 'why' of the Roksan Kandy though, that seems a bit much.

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2017-09-20, 12:54 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-20 12:57 by DavidHB.)
Post: #148
RE: A wet Wednesday with plenty of surprises
(2017-09-20 11:30)Tin Wrote:  Davids signature explains perfectly what he bought; a Lejonklou phono-pre and a KEDSM to replace his ADSM.
I'm not so sure about the 'why' of the Roksan Kandy though, that seems a bit much.

Quite right as regards the purchases. Gonzo agreed that the KEDSM was a good addition to the system (and it is!). But it doesn't have a phono stage. The Uphorik is overkill for the extent that I would use it, and the Gaio, which is MM only, was (I hope) a sensible compromise.

Certainly, with the better ADC and the Gaio, phono is a lot better with the new setup than with the ADSM, which I didn't think was all that bad, anyway. The Basik (or maybe it was the K5) was just a bit bright, but is now both better balanced and more detailed. Would it be better yet with an LP12? Well, Gonzo already knows the answer to that question.

As regards the Kandy, like the Basik it is a survivor from my old Quad-based system; I've had it for ten years or more. It gets occasional use when a friend brings in a CD, so it ought to have been in my previous signature as well. Again, the KEDSM has improved the performance of CD playback; as the connection is digital, I'm not sure how that happens. As streaming is still better yet, that's not something I feel I need to enquire into.

Sorry I can't write any more; I need to go listen again ... Smile

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
Second system: Kiko
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2017-10-01, 11:09
Post: #149
RE: A wet Wednesday with plenty of surprises
Is this story finished?

Willem

Akurate DS/1 > Klimax Kontrol/1/D > Klimax Chakra Twin/D > Akurate 242's MkI (alas, no updated stands...)
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