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A magician lives in Vancouver BC, Canada and he is called Paulssurround
2017-09-09, 17:02 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-10 16:14 by Mr.Bear.)
Post: #1
A magician lives in Vancouver BC, Canada and he is called Paulssurround
It only took me six years to finally getting around to wanting to implement Space Optimization. I am not 100% sure why I waited so long but not feeling completely comfortable on how to do it correctly was a big part of my delay. I have (23) DS’s installed around the house & property, with all of the speakers (inside the house) being Linn speakers installed in the ceiling and/or walls… except for two rooms: 1-Home Theater Room and 2-The Family Room

I will list out what I have in each of those two rooms but in summary, I have never enjoyed listening to either of these rooms and that has been beyond disappointing considering the equipment cost within each of these two rooms.

Home Theater Room:
(1) Klimax DS
(1) Klimax Kontrol
(1) Simaudio MOON CP-8
(1) Klimax 340A (Center)
(2) Klimax 350A (Front)
(2) Klimax 350A (Rear)
(2) Klimax 345A (Sub)
(1) Oppo BDP-95 (Blu-ray)

The Home Theater Room is small and rather simple so I figured it would be the easiest of the two rooms for Paulssurround. However this room has always been THE most disappointing room for me; it sounded muddy, unclear, no detail in the low/low-mids and simply unpleasant to listen to, regardless if it was 2-channel music, surround music or 5.1 movies. Two of the terms Paulssurround used was Bass Overhang and One-Note Bass.


Family Room:
(1) Klimax DS
(1) Klimax Kontrol
(2) Klimax Solo
(2) Akurate 212 (Mains)
(2) Klimax 345A (Sub)
(1) Oppo BDP-95 (Blu-ray)

The Family Room is large and VERY complex so I figured it would be difficult, if not impossible for Paulssurround. This room has also been disappointing with many of the same Bass Overhang issues.


The solution to all of this was two things, Space Optimization and Paulssurround… After chatting with Paulssurround a bit about my situation, he agreed to travel to see me and perform his magic. We had originally planned on three full days to work on the rooms but I had to reduce that to two days, due to family commitments on my end. I wish we had that third day because I believe Paulssurround would have gotten even more out of the systems… however the end result was still extremely impressive and the solution (Space Optimization from Linn) was Free -- Thanks Linn!!!!. My only regret now is that I didn’t have this done long before now!!

Paulssurround is not only very gifted with his Space Optimization techniques, he is also one of the nicest, most positive and pleasant gentleman I have ever met. He is most welcome to come back anytime in the future and stay with us as our guest.

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2017-09-09, 17:26
Post: #2
RE: A magician lives in Vancouver BC, Canada and he is called Paulssurround
Gosh. On first reading I thought that must have been terrible being so disappointed with the sound you were getting. But...
It just goes to show how valuable Space Optimisation can be for such situations. And to think Linn are the ONLY company to provide such a thing (Devaliet and Yamaha etc. may try to do similar but not to anything like the extent and accuracy that SO and SO+ does).

So the end of the story put a big smile on my face too Smile Thank you Mr.Bear for sharing. And of course Paul for his continued work and wisdom.

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2017-09-10, 05:27
Post: #3
RE: A magician lives in Vancouver BC, Canada and he is called Paulssurround
(2017-09-09 17:02)Mr.Bear Wrote:  It only took me six years to finally getting around to wanting to implement Space Optimization. I am not 100% sure why I waited so long but not feeling completely comfortable on how to do it correctly was a big part of my delay. I have (23) DS’s installed around the house & property, with all of the speakers (inside the house) being Linn speakers installed in the ceiling and/or walls… except for two rooms: 1-Home Theater Room and 2-The Family Room

I will list out what I have in each of those two rooms but in summary, I have never enjoyed listening to either of these rooms and that has been beyond disappointing considering the equipment cost within each of these two rooms.

Home Theater Room:
(1) Klimax DS
(1) Klimax Kontrol
(1) Simaudio MOON CP-8
(1) Klimax 340A (Center)
(2) Klimax 350A (Front)
(2) Klimax 350A (Rear)
(2) Klimax 345A (Sub)
(1) Oppo BDP-95 (Blu-ray)

The Home Theater Room is small and rather simple so I figured it would be the easiest of the two rooms for Paulssurround. However this room has always been THE most disappointing room for me; it sounded muddy, unclear, no detail in the low/low-mids and simply unpleasant to listen to, regardless if it was 2-channel music, surround music or 5.1 movies. Two of the terms Paulssurround used was Bass Overhang and One-Note Bass.


Family Room:
(1) Klimax DS
(1) Klimax Kontrol
(2) Klimax Solo
(2) Akurate 212 (Mains)
(2) Klimax 345A (Sub)
(1) Oppo BDP-95 (Blu-ray)

The Family Room is large and VERY complex so I figured it would be difficult, if not impossible for Paulssurround. This room has also been disappointing with many of the same Bass Overhang issues.


The solution to all of this was two things, Space Optimization and Paulssurround… After chatting with Paulssurround a bit about my situation, he agreed to travel to see me and perform his magic. We had originally planned on three full days to work on the rooms but I had to reduce that to two days, due to family commitments on my end. I wish we had that third day because I believe Paulssurround would have gotten even more out of the systems… however the end result was extremely impressive and the solution (Space Optimization from Linn) was Free -- Thanks Linn!!!!. My only regret now is that I didn’t have this done long before now!!

Paulssurround is not only very gifted with his Space Optimization techniques, he is also one of the nicest, most positive and pleasant gentleman I have ever met. He is most welcome to come back anytime in the future and stay with us as our guest.

Especially in Michigan:

Thank you Mr. Bear for your very kind words, for the visit to your amazing home and to exploring some of Michigan.

I really appreciate your kindness, generosity, and getting to know you. Especially all the wonderful things you do to change the quality of life for those in need in your community. A true philanthropist and great guy.

I would love to revisit your home again someday.

Perhaps when you upgrade your main system to Katalyst Exakt? Tongue

Great to meet you and the family, and a wonderful surprise was to spend most of the day with the famous ThomasOK.

ThomasOK is a truly great guy, and there was so much to talk about and share our life experiences with hifi. He is a highly respected and valuable asset to the LP12 crowd and to all Linn owners.

It was a wonderful experience to visit Michigan indeed.

I hope to spend a couple of days in Detroit next time, to visit some car museums.

Cheers

(2017-09-09 17:26)timster Wrote:  Gosh. On first reading I thought that must have been terrible being so disappointed with the sound you were getting. But...
It just goes to show how valuable Space Optimisation can be for such situations. And to think Linn are the ONLY company to provide such a thing (Devaliet and Yamaha etc. may try to do similar but not to anything like the extent and accuracy that SO and SO+ does).

So the end of the story put a big smile on my face too Smile Thank you Mr.Bear for sharing. And of course Paul for his continued work and wisdom.

Thank you Timster

I am still learning.

You never know when I am out your way. Wink

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Power: Environmental Potentials 2460, Shunyata Triton, Zitron Cobras, Alpha Digitals
Room Acoustics: SPACE, SubDude HT's, Acoustic Panels
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2017-09-12, 17:21 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-14 15:53 by Paulssurround.)
Post: #4
RE: A magician lives in Vancouver BC, Canada and he is called Paulssurround
A week ago or so, I went on a road trip to visit with Eldarboy and Better Music in the Niagara Falls area, and then on to Michigan to meet Mr.Bear.

Mr. Bear lives a ways west of Detroit in a very beautiful part of Michigan. The scenery is spectacular, with rolling hills and impressive landscaping.

Mr. Bear's directions for getting to his home were excellent, and I had no problem finding his address, and pulled up to the gate. I buzzed the intercom, and fortunately, his son was at the gate in his vehicle just behind me, as I arrived, to let me in. The road to the house was about 1/2 a mile to get to the house, driving through an exquisite property with a lake and a beach, as you approach the house. I drove over a wooden bridge to the house and parked the rental car which had transported me from Niagara Falls, about a 5 hour drive.

I was lead to the guest house, which occupies the top floor of a barn with stables, where I could see the stables from the lounge area, through the windows into the barn floor below. The guest accommodations were excellent, and very comfortable indeed.

Mr. Bear was not far behind and gave me an orientation of the guest house and then into the main house, after a tour of the property near the house.

There are horses, llamas, a goat, dogs, and a cat or two. Most of the time, I was accompanied by Mr. Bear's dog called Pink Floyd. Smile

I met the very lovely Mrs. Bear and some of the bear cubs, who are about to go back to university and high school.

Eventually, we entered the home theatre room, which was a very large rectangular room, filled with Windows on 3 sides and a large projector screen betweeen the front 350A speakers.

The room had a second pair of 350A's as surround speakers, as well as a 340A centre channel speaker, and 2 345 subwoofers in each corner. Very impressive.

I could tell by the pictures on the wall of famous musicians and the guitar on the wall that Mr Bear was a Rock and Roll guy. I felt at home. Big Grin

It did not take long to get the music playing and working on SPACE optimization. I wanted to listen to this system a number of times at different sessions, to tweak SPACE that evening, and at different times of the day.

At this point, Mr. Bear's home theatre room speakers are not Exakted, so I was not able to do SPACE optimization on the centre channel or surround speakers, so just concentrated on the front speakers settings.

After a session with SPACE, I was pleased to get an improvement in sound quality, but it was a far cry from what I wanted, and what the potential could be.

I will continue the story later......

Exakt Surround 5.0:
Katalyst Akubariks, AEDSM, Akurate Exaktbox 6/4200 for 225 Centre, Majik Exaktbox I for 212 Surrounds, OPPO 105 on StillPoints.
Power: Environmental Potentials 2460, Shunyata Triton, Zitron Cobras, Alpha Digitals
Room Acoustics: SPACE, SubDude HT's, Acoustic Panels
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2017-09-12, 17:58
Post: #5
RE: A magician lives in Vancouver BC, Canada and he is called Paulssurround
Paul - sounds awesome. I should warn you that when you do visit our drive isn't quite so long. But don't worry I can always drive you around the block a few times. Sounds fabulous Mr Bear!

Glad the trip went so well for all concerned and I am sure there will be 'future installments' to look forward to.
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2017-09-12, 19:03 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-12 19:04 by Eldarboy.)
Post: #6
RE: A magician lives in Vancouver BC, Canada and he is called Paulssurround
Mr. Bear: did Paulsurround serve you purple koolaid from his pocket flask when he arrived? It sounds like he did, your drank from it, and that explains it all Tongue Big Grin

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2017-09-13, 16:05 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-13 16:08 by Paulssurround.)
Post: #7
RE: A magician lives in Vancouver BC, Canada and he is called Paulssurround
(2017-09-12 17:58)Martin H Wrote:  Paul - sounds awesome. I should warn you that when you do visit our drive isn't quite so long. But don't worry I can always drive you around the block a few times. Sounds fabulous Mr Bear!

Glad the trip went so well for all concerned and I am sure there will be 'future installments' to look forward to.

It was a wonderful visit, and I was well taken care of.

Thank you for the invitation to your home, Martin, which may be sooner than later. Big Grin


(2017-09-12 19:03)Eldarboy Wrote:  Mr. Bear: did Paulsurround serve you purple koolaid from his pocket flask when he arrived? It sounds like he did, your drank from it, and that explains it all Tongue Big Grin

No, it was the green koolaid. Tongue




Mr.Bear's home theatre room is quite large, with a large set of windows on the left wall, and 2 separate doors to an outside patio. The front wall has 2 separate banks of windows on either side of the movie screen, and the right wall had another large array of windows. The room is something like 20 feet by 30 feet, and a high ceiling.

There are a number of chairs in the room, with carpets on the floor, thick drapes, automated motorized blinds that can be remotely dropped. This should provide some dampening of the room acoustics, which seemed good.

It was time to measure the room and enter the values for width, length and height into the room dimensions for the SPACE optimization. This is a nice shaped rectangular room, and big enough that it should breath well, even with 2 pairs of 350A's and 2 subwoofers.

I did suggest that Mr.Bear could look into getting some further advice on acoustic panels, to see if that would be beneficial?

Playing some music, Mr. Bear noted that what he did not like about his setup was that there was a large bass overhang in the room, that muddied the bass, and smeared over the mids and highs.

I went about listening to my reference tracks for bass to see if I could identify any issues, related to the music. So I played Bob Marley's Buffalo Soldier, Lou Reed's Walk on the Wild Side, Diana Krall's A Case Of You just for fun.

As expected, the bass was muddy with audible bass overhang, and the bass seemed almost like one note bass.

I inserted a custom room mode around 18 Hz, and then played with finer adjustments of the frequency, gain and bandwidth.

I found a combination that seemed to work well, and it minimized the bass overhang issue substantially. However, it was far from perfect.

Having just visited Gary from Better Music in the Niagara Falls area, I was equipped with his Space Tones, which are single frequencies from 30 Hz to well over 200 Hz.

I decided to just play the single frequencies from 80 Hz, working down to 30 Hz, to map out the room modes by recording the sound pressure level, at each frequency.

In this way, we could see if the measured room modes correlated with the calculated room modes from Konfig.

When I started playing with the Space tones, we got an unexpected result!!!

When we hit a number of individual frequencies, there were large harmonic vibrations in the room, which seem to come from every corner of the room. So the hunt was on to find out what it was that was vibrating so much.

Putting on our Inspector Clouseau hats, we examined everything on the shelves, the furniture, windows and so on to see what was vibrating. This was surely interfering with the sound quality in the room, as music was being played.

It would not be until the following day, when ThomasOK came over, that we discovered what the culprit was.

You can imagine the sound of a single frequency playing at relatively loud volume, as the room objects vibrated. My ears were excited by the sounds produced, but the dog, Pink Floyd, was unfazed throughout the whole process, and even seemed to sleep through much of the racket we had created.

I worked through the individual calculated room modes in SPACE, to see if I could get a better result.

To be continued.....

Exakt Surround 5.0:
Katalyst Akubariks, AEDSM, Akurate Exaktbox 6/4200 for 225 Centre, Majik Exaktbox I for 212 Surrounds, OPPO 105 on StillPoints.
Power: Environmental Potentials 2460, Shunyata Triton, Zitron Cobras, Alpha Digitals
Room Acoustics: SPACE, SubDude HT's, Acoustic Panels
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2017-09-14, 07:31
Post: #8
RE: A magician lives in Vancouver BC, Canada and he is called Paulssurround
The rest of the evening, we played some movies to get an idea of how the system sounded in multichannel for movies, as well as some 5.1 channel music which I brought along with me.

We played the opening scenes of the movie Gladiator. I was expecting to hear the arrows fired in the air, whizzing by my ears, and expecting lots of booms and bangs.
That did not happen.

Then we played a James Bond film, again underwhelmed by the sound quality in 5.2.

As the 5.2 Linn system in Mr. Bears home did not sound quite right, I went about making a mental note of what I was hearing, to tackle it later in the day.

Later that night I got to work on the home theatre again., and boy did we get results.

We played some music, to warm up the system, to get ready for ThomasOK's visit.

Later that morning, ThomasOK arrived.

He is a very welcoming and warm person, with great calmness and a wealth of information on all things stereo and music. He is also a great diplomat, as I can only wonder what he thought of my ideas and approach to SPACE optimization. However, he made no negative comments, and he seemed to keep quiet and let me do my thing. Tongue

We explained the vibration issues to Thomas, we were having with vibrations at many frequencies playing SPACE tones. We spread out across the room and listened as we played the tones.

It turned out that the main culprit appeared to be the cabinet doors on the built in book cases on the rear wall, were vibrating. There were also some suspected decorations that were vibrating.

Then we decided that some felt or rubber stickers would be attached to the cabinets at strategic places to minimize the vibrations.

I played some of my reference music, as well as Thomas's music choices, to get a sense of what he thought of the SPACE optimization adjustents so far.

Thomas is an analogue guy, and an exceptional expert on fine tuning LP12's.
I knew it would be a hard task to please him with a SPACE optimized system.

Thomas listened to the music, and did some fine tuning of the toe-in of the front speakers, and there was an obvious improvement in sound quality and sound stage.

I continued to play my reference tunes and was concerned with the mids and highs being a bit too shouty. However, I felt we made good progress.

It was lunch time, and it turns out Mr. Bear has a passion for cooking as a hobby, and we were not disappointed. The pasta was excellent.

We felt it was time to tackle the great room, which is a huge room, that incorporates the family room, and kitchen, in an open concept design.

This room has a pair of white 212 speakers, with 2 Linn 345 subwoofers, hidden in the integrated bookshelf and fireplace on the front wall.

We measured the room for SPACE optimization and entered the values into Konfig, and pressed "Optimize"......

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Power: Environmental Potentials 2460, Shunyata Triton, Zitron Cobras, Alpha Digitals
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2017-09-14, 11:12 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-14 11:13 by sunbeamgls.)
Post: #9
RE: A magician lives in Vancouver BC, Canada and he is called Paulssurround
Paul is very generous with his time.

No disrespect to Paul, but it would be so much better if there were more dealer magicians too. It seems that there are some who are committed to the extra effort involved, but not enough.

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2017-09-14, 11:37
Post: #10
RE: A magician lives in Vancouver BC, Canada and he is called Paulssurround
(2017-09-14 07:31)Paulssurround Wrote:  Later that morning, ThomasOK arrived.

He is a very welcoming and warm person, with great calmness and a wealth of information on all things stereo and music. He is also a great diplomat, as I can only wonder what he thought of my ideas and approach to SPACE optimization. However, he made no negative comments, and he seemed to keep quiet and let me do my thing.

Another fine narrative Paul and your biggest SO challenge to date - I like the way that you and DavidHB are drip feeding us in an episodic fashion! It would be useful and informative, however, if ThomasOK were able to share his thoughts on the process and outcomes. As you say further on "Thomas is an analogue guy, and an exceptional expert on fine tuning LP12's. I knew it would be a hard task to please him with a SPACE optimized system. "

(2017-09-14 07:31)Paulssurround Wrote:  Thomas listened to the music, and did some fine tuning of the toe-in of the front speakers, and there was an obvious improvement in sound quality and sound stage.

I'm always confused when toe-in and sound stage are introduced in any Space Optimisation Thread - there is a need for clarity here or maybe its just me?? Toe-in is not mentioned in any of the SO documentation AKAIK although it has been recommended by Philbo and a number of others on occasion??

(2017-09-14 07:31)Paulssurround Wrote:  We measured the room for SPACE optimization and entered the values into Konfig, and pressed "Optimize"......

Can't wait for the next instalment ... Big Grin

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