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Adding exakt sub when keeping analogue setup
2017-09-10, 20:32
Post: #1
Adding exakt sub when keeping analogue setup
Although many sub amps have things like DSP / phase control, none will be able to look ahead of time for a signal that has not yet arrived. Depending on how the sub is placed, one may want to sent the sub signal out slightly earlier than the main speaker signal.

Would it be possible to combine the Exakt output going into an Exaktbox sub, with the analogue output of my ADSM/1, running the main speakers?

Ok crazy idea, maybe... ;-) I guess the biggest challenge is to get the analogue output delayed enough, so that it aligns with the exakt output?

Main: ADSM/1, KCT/1, Rogers Monitor 8.0
Bedroom: Raspberry PI, AQ Dragonfly 1.2, '96 Majik-I, ('active') Citronic ST-5
Workroom: iMac, NuForce HDP, Klout, Mission M31
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2017-09-10, 21:25
Post: #2
RE: Adding exakt sub when keeping analogue setup
I doubt that that is possible. Besides, Exakt would introduce a lot of latency, probable more than you'd want to have.
There are however dsps that you could use to delay the analogue output -or- you could just use SO to manage your room instead of the subs magic.

Tin can telephone system.
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2017-09-10, 22:41 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-10 22:41 by DavidHB.)
Post: #3
RE: Adding exakt sub when keeping analogue setup
I agree with Tin that it is not possible and, with the latency issues, would probably not be recommendable even if it is possible.

From my experience, I'd say that, in a passive system, Space Optimisation does do a decent job of helping you integrate a sub with your main speakers. The fly in the ointment is that the Rogers are not listed as measured for Space Optimisation, so you'd need to choose a model that is similar in size and driver layout to yours; the distance from the bottom of the speaker to the centre of the bass unit is probably the main similarity to look for. Once you have optimisation settings that work well with the main speakers, you can add in the sub-woofer.

From the specification, your speakers go quite low. Why do you feel the need of a sub-woofer?

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
Second system: Kiko
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2017-09-10, 23:10
Post: #4
RE: Adding exakt sub when keeping analogue setup
(2017-09-10 22:41)DavidHB Wrote:  From the specification, your speakers go quite low. Why do you feel the need of a sub-woofer?

They do indeed go low and (after putting enough effort in SPACE) in a very musical way as well. You can truly feel LF like the organ notes on Saint-Saens organ symphony, that go as deep as 19 Hz. However, going low is not the whole story...

I've recently auditioned Genesis V's in my own room, which have truly amazing controlled low. These are a closed box design with 4 bass units per speaker, and with a dedicated servo bass amplifier. They put out an effortless low which is very deep (below 20 Hz), never muddy, very quick, and nicely integrated with the rest of the spectrum.

If you want that type of speed and control, IMHO there is no alternative to going closed box with a servo. I've tried pairing 1 or 2 Sizmik's before, but never could get them to integrate well with the transmission line bass.

Looking at Exakt, that leaves Klimax 350 and Komri's, if I am correct. 350's are clearly not in reach for me. Komri's might be in reach but I've never heard them and I consider them a risk due to their typical age. And to be honest, anything else my Rogers Monitor do very much to my liking, they truly pull me into the music and create a huge soundstage (in my room..).

So my quest is for more tightness and speed in the subsonic octave.

Main: ADSM/1, KCT/1, Rogers Monitor 8.0
Bedroom: Raspberry PI, AQ Dragonfly 1.2, '96 Majik-I, ('active') Citronic ST-5
Workroom: iMac, NuForce HDP, Klout, Mission M31
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2017-09-10, 23:36 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-10 23:37 by DavidHB.)
Post: #5
RE: Adding exakt sub when keeping analogue setup
(2017-09-10 23:10)piolinn Wrote:  If you want that type of speed and control, IMHO there is no alternative to going closed box with a servo. I've tried pairing 1 or 2 Sizmik's before, but never could get them to integrate well with the transmission line bass ... So my quest is for more tightness and speed in the subsonic octave.

You would definitely get on well with Briain. I suspect that his substantial collection of test equipment includes a seismograph ... Smile

I suspect that you are looking for a sub-woofer (or two) with a lot more grunt than any of the Linn models. The big old REL models, for example. But it sounds as though you want something that goes down to 10Hz, or even lower.

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
Second system: Kiko
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2017-09-11, 06:08
Post: #6
RE: Adding exakt sub when keeping analogue setup
I know that an (ex) forum member owns a pair of REL Stadiums and he once complained here that his DS would stop reproducing music somewhere below 4.5Hz or thereabout.
I have 3 smaller REL subs myself, 2 Strata Vs and a Stampede, which are not quite as fast as a pair of servo controlled Komris, but they do get close.
My 3 RELs get lower than Komris, but I do have a very helpful low and wide room mode near 10Hz, so I can't be sure how they would compare to Komris in the same room.
The advantage of RELs is that they do not have DSPs, so they respond directly.

As for you Remos, have you considered that if you add more amplifier power they will get lower? You need a lot of power to reproduce the lowest frequencies and your KCT might not be able to squeeze the lowest bits out of your Remos. But it might be cheaper to add a sub to get the same effect.
As the website of remo.nl claims that Remo does 'surround systems' they might be able to give you advice on how to get more out of them.

If you are Dutch, you're welcome to hear my setup and make up your mind, although you'd hear my supportive 10Hz room mode as well of course. So your kilometrage may differ.

Tin can telephone system.
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