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Akodoriks sound too clinical
2017-09-16, 14:12
Post: #1
Akodoriks sound too clinical
Hi All,
Just starting down the road with tuning Space optimization. Its quite daunting but sounds like the effort will be worth it from what I’ve read on all the posts on the subject. Looking forward to feedback from forum members which I just joined. So here we go, first with some background:

My system and room:
Linn Klimax DSM/2 Exact with a pair of Exact Akudoriks (not updated to Katalyst, yet)
The current room setup is not ideal (hence the need for space)
Length: 6.1, Width:7.5, Height: 2.4 with the speaker’s setup in the far left of room. All partition walls, and floor (hardwood) with medium-light density area rug on front of listening space, large window to the left, input into SO. Large 75 inch tv sitting between speakers not input input SO. Wide floating (2.5 m wide) cabinet underneath tv, holding the jewel of the room the DSM.
Listening position: 4.8 to right wall, 2 to left wall.
Left Speaker: to front wall: .6, to left wall: .51, no toe in
Right Speaker: to front wall” .6, to right wall: 3.7 no toe in.

Note: I had the DS setup in another room (much better dimensions and room treatments) driving a Sonic Frontiers power 2 tube amp, and Mirage HDT-Fs (older home theater speakers that https://www.soundandvision.com/content/m...ter-system ) and the sound was amazing, had real emotion and soul, although not as detailed as the Akudoricks which sound more clinical. I havnt tried the Akudoricks in the other room and its simply not a wife friendly option (i.e. practical position is right where they are).

Lots of calculated room modes after triggering So, and it does sound much better than without it;
Room Mode 1: Left Frequency 22.93, Gain -27.5 , Bandwidth .196355
Room Mode 2: Left Frequency 28.20, Gain -27.07 , Bandwidth .159744, Right: Frequency 28.20, Gain -26.89 , Bandwidth .159744
Room Mode 3: Left Frequency 36.35, Gain -27.5 , Bandwidth .123954
Room Mode 4: Left Frequency 45.07, Gain -9.58 , Bandwidth .098234
Room Mode 5: Left Frequency 53.84, Gain -9.12 , Bandwidth .083690 Right: Frequency 53.84, Gain -8.02 , Bandwidth .083690
Room Mode 6: Left Frequency 56.39, Gain -9.24 , Bandwidth .079902 Right: Frequency 56.39, Gain -7.56 , Bandwidth .079902
Room Mode 7: Left Frequency 60.88, Gain -8.30 , Bandwidth .074018
Room Mode 8: Left Frequency 68.80, Gain -16.48 , Bandwidth .065497
Room Mode 9: Left Frequency 74.35, Gain -18.71 , Bandwidth .060605
Room Mode 10: Right Frequency 77.01, Gain -6.21 , Bandwidth .058512
Room Mode 10: Left Frequency 80.36, Gain -6.04 , Bandwidth .056079

Quite the list of adjustments..., the balance-soundstage between speakers sounds pretty good but getting some harshness from Diana Kroll, and its missing the emotion. I will start listing to Paul’s reference tracks and give additional impressions but need to run for now. Should be interesting to start tweaking the setup.

I will post an attachment with the graphs in next post but need to run for now.

Thanks for reading.
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2017-09-16, 14:40
Post: #2
RE: Akodoriks sound too clinical
Welcome to the forum. Where abouts are you?

I'm sure the forum can help or maybe somebody could visit.

Peter
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2017-09-16, 15:34
Post: #3
RE: Akodoriks sound too clinical
Gosh. 11 modes. That is a lot.
I'm sure Paul (the resident Space Cadet and Professor of Optimisation) will be able to help.
My initial thoughts for the harshness would be to add some gain to modes 8 and 9. I also wonder whether the large TV screen could be consider a window for it reflective properties.

Also if you haven't already it may be worth reading up on this as well as the posts on the forum:
http://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/images/8/84/...sation.pdf

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2017-09-16, 17:52
Post: #4
RE: Akodoriks sound too clinical
(2017-09-16 14:12)Craigas Wrote:  Hi All,
Just starting down the road with tuning Space optimization. Its quite daunting but sounds like the effort will be worth it from what I’ve read on all the posts on the subject. Looking forward to feedback from forum members which I just joined. So here we go, first with some background:

My system and room:
Linn Klimax DSM/2 Exact with a pair of Exact Akudoriks (not updated to Katalyst, yet)
The current room setup is not ideal (hence the need for space)
Length: 6.1, Width:7.5, Height: 2.4 with the speaker’s setup in the far left of room. All partition walls, and floor (hardwood) with medium-light density area rug on front of listening space, large window to the left, input into SO. Large 75 inch tv sitting between speakers not input input SO. Wide floating (2.5 m wide) cabinet underneath tv, holding the jewel of the room the DSM.
Listening position: 4.8 to right wall, 2 to left wall.
Left Speaker: to front wall: .6, to left wall: .51, no toe in
Right Speaker: to front wall” .6, to right wall: 3.7 no toe in.

Note: I had the DS setup in another room (much better dimensions and room treatments) driving a Sonic Frontiers power 2 tube amp, and Mirage HDT-Fs (older home theater speakers that https://www.soundandvision.com/content/m...ter-system ) and the sound was amazing, had real emotion and soul, although not as detailed as the Akudoricks which sound more clinical. I havnt tried the Akudoricks in the other room and its simply not a wife friendly option (i.e. practical position is right where they are).

Lots of calculated room modes after triggering So, and it does sound much better than without it;
Room Mode 1: Left Frequency 22.93, Gain -27.5 , Bandwidth .196355
Room Mode 2: Left Frequency 28.20, Gain -27.07 , Bandwidth .159744, Right: Frequency 28.20, Gain -26.89 , Bandwidth .159744
Room Mode 3: Left Frequency 36.35, Gain -27.5 , Bandwidth .123954
Room Mode 4: Left Frequency 45.07, Gain -9.58 , Bandwidth .098234
Room Mode 5: Left Frequency 53.84, Gain -9.12 , Bandwidth .083690 Right: Frequency 53.84, Gain -8.02 , Bandwidth .083690
Room Mode 6: Left Frequency 56.39, Gain -9.24 , Bandwidth .079902 Right: Frequency 56.39, Gain -7.56 , Bandwidth .079902
Room Mode 7: Left Frequency 60.88, Gain -8.30 , Bandwidth .074018
Room Mode 8: Left Frequency 68.80, Gain -16.48 , Bandwidth .065497
Room Mode 9: Left Frequency 74.35, Gain -18.71 , Bandwidth .060605
Room Mode 10: Right Frequency 77.01, Gain -6.21 , Bandwidth .058512
Room Mode 10: Left Frequency 80.36, Gain -6.04 , Bandwidth .056079

Quite the list of adjustments..., the balance-soundstage between speakers sounds pretty good but getting some harshness from Diana Kroll, and its missing the emotion. I will start listing to Paul’s reference tracks and give additional impressions but need to run for now. Should be interesting to start tweaking the setup.

I will post an attachment with the graphs in next post but need to run for now.

Thanks for reading.


I look forward to seeing your graphs, and some pictures of the room if you could, please?

Your description of the room is helpful, and I think I will be able to help.

If you could provide a more detailed description of the sound quality of Nora Jones song Turn Me On about 45 seconds into the song, for harshness and shoutiness, it would be helpful, as well as Diana Krall's Song, A Case of You from the Live In Paris Album.

In addition, a description of some of my other reference tracks would be helpful.

If I were there, I would be toeing in the speakers, but would like to see the pictures.

Please check the spaghetti of wires and cables behind the cabinet, and make sure no mains cords are near the Ethernet cables.

Also, if you have a TV or HD box plugged into the same electrical outlet as the sound system, that will cause degradation of sound quality, so plug them into a separate outlet if possible. Big Grin

(2017-09-16 15:34)timster Wrote:  Gosh. 11 modes. That is a lot.
I'm sure Paul (the resident Space Cadet and Professor of Optimisation) will be able to help.
My initial thoughts for the harshness would be to add some gain to modes 8 and 9. I also wonder whether the large TV screen could be consider a window for it reflective properties.

Also if you haven't already it may be worth reading up on this as well as the posts on the forum:
http://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/images/8/84/...sation.pdf

Thanks Timster

I'll give it a try.

I now use the aptly named "Timster Tweak" which has been very helpful in providing new levels of clarity to some of the systems I have played around with.

Your idea of completely eliminating a room mode in the 50 Hz range by setting the gain to zero, has worked wonders in some Linn systems.

It is now one of my preferred tweaks in my Space optimizer tool box. Big Grin

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2017-09-16, 20:31
Post: #5
RE: Akodoriks sound too clinical
Thanks for responding, trying to insert attachments but having some difficulties, not sure if its because I am new member and there are limits on what I can post.

I live in Toronto area, used to live in Vancouver so that would have been easier to tempt your Paul into a visit. Maybe its a reason I can use to move back to beautiful BC. i.e. its not a "practical" to live in Toronto anymore, ha. Not sure it will sell though.

From a cable management perspective, yes, its a mess, I actually have the power cord to speakers wrapped around Ethernet cable, and wrapped together with white electrical tape to make the install look very clean, the other cables inside cabinet are a rats nest. Then again, I though if its in the digital domain and Ethernet has error correction built in, how could it degrade the sound of 1's and 0's.

Let me try again to post pics.
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2017-09-16, 20:38
Post: #6
RE: Akodoriks sound too clinical
Pic attached, I hope. Message: You are currently using N/A of your allocated attachment usage (Unlimited)
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2017-09-16, 20:42
Post: #7
RE: Akodoriks sound too clinical
Nope, try again. Wink

Tin can telephone system.
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2017-09-16, 20:51 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-16 20:55 by Craigas.)
Post: #8
RE: Akodoriks sound too clinical
Hmmm, maybe file size too big but doesn't give me error message.

Graph attached, resized using a very sophisticated space optimization algorithm. I text it to myself, then email it, then download it. I'm very proud.


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2017-09-16, 21:02
Post: #9
RE: Akodoriks sound too clinical
Room pic 1 & 2


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2017-09-16, 21:10
Post: #10
RE: Akodoriks sound too clinical
Pics 3 an 4. Funny how the ideal position would have the entire system including couch swung 90 degrees so that cabinet would be where window is, and speakers would be to the left and right of window. Couch would be about 5/8 of room size back from window. obviously not how I set up ideal position. Think SO would choke on that.


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