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Majik DSM power enough?
2017-09-20, 21:20
Post: #1
Majik DSM power enough?
I am considering the Majik DSM which has about 90 watts per channel. I want to drive Dynaudio X34 floor standers which should be no problem, but at some point I will likely buy 4 ohm speakers since I seem to find more of them in my price range than the 8 ohm speakers. I have heard that the real power level of the DSM is closer to 60 watts but I really don't know. Question: Have any of you tried to drive truly power hungry speakers with the Majik DSM? What did you think? What would you recommend?
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2017-09-20, 22:10 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-21 16:52 by Hagen2000.)
Post: #2
RE: Majik DSM power enough?
I once tried the MDSM with my KEF R700 and it was too weak for my taste - my speakers have a nominal impedance of 8 Ohms too.
However I would highly recommend to run listening tests with the combination of electronics and speakers that you own or want to buy. Just to rely on technical data like impedance is a too theoretical approach.

Note: Edited part 2 of first sentence (was: although my speakers have a nominal impedance of 8 Ohms.)

ADSM/0, NAD Masters M22, KEF R700
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2017-09-21, 08:40
Post: #3
RE: Majik DSM power enough?
If by real power you mean the 8 Ohm delivery, I think that 90W@4Ohm will probably translate to 50W@8Ohm.
I agree with Hagen that a theoretical approach will not work great as it is a rather complex mechanism.

Having said that, I doubt the MDSM will be able to drive floor standers comfortably and the lower end will probably suffer.
Things to consider are the type of music you play, and the volume you play it at. The latter again depends on the room size.

If you want to play modern electronic-ish music like Christine and the Queens at a loud volume in a large room on large floor standers, the MDSM will struggle for sure.

Tin can telephone system.
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2017-09-21, 09:09 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-21 10:46 by DavidHB.)
Post: #4
RE: Majik DSM power enough?
Just to clarify one point of Tin's (IMO) good advice, Linn amplifiers typically have quoted ratings into 4 Ohms; AFAIK all Linn's current speakers are rated at 4 Ohms (nominal).

Apart from the impedance and power rating, you also need to consider speaker efficiency. Some floor standers are actually more efficient than some standmounts.

But in the end, as Tin says, it comes down to your own use case and preferences. 90W is not a trivial power level, so it is possible that the MDSM will give you what you need. A home demo is the best way to find out whether that is the case.

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
Second system: Kiko
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2017-09-21, 09:58
Post: #5
RE: Majik DSM power enough?
(2017-09-21 09:09)DavidHB Wrote:  Just to clarify one point of Tin's (IMO) good advice, Linn amplifiers typically have quoted ratings into 4 Ohms; AFAIK all Linn's current speakers are rated at 4 Ohms (nominal).

Apart from the impedance and power rating, you also need to consider speaker efficiency. Some floor sanders are actually more efficient than some standmounts.

But in the end, as Tin says, it comes down to your own use case and preferences. 90W is not a trivial power level, so it is possible that the MDSM will give you what you need. A home demo is the best way to find out whether that is the case.

David
All true. Smile

Just to give some extra reflection: an Akurate 4200 is rated at 4x200W, but in a real world application it may deliver those 200W to a bass driver, but for the smaller drivers the amount will drop very fast. So let's say that my setup with 2 4200 will use 2x220W max. If you take in account some compensation that my setup is Aktiv, you could say that my setup can be compared to a 2x250W passive setup. On top of that, I have 3 subs with a combined power of 400W.
I also happen to have a friend with a 2x30W tube amp.
Both our setups get the job done.

The above calculation is quite rubbish, but so are all power rating calculations. So in that light the calculation is spot on in its wrongness. Smile

Tin can telephone system.
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2017-09-21, 11:47
Post: #6
RE: Majik DSM power enough?
(2017-09-21 09:58)Tin Wrote:  All true. Smile

Just to give some extra reflection: an Akurate 4200 is rated at 4x200W, but in a real world application it may deliver those 200W to a bass driver, but for the smaller drivers the amount will drop very fast. So let's say that my setup with 2 4200 will use 2x220W max. If you take in account some compensation that my setup is Aktiv, you could say that my setup can be compared to a 2x250W passive setup. On top of that, I have 3 subs with a combined power of 400W.
I also happen to have a friend with a 2x30W tube amp.
Both our setups get the job done.

The above calculation is quite rubbish, but so are all power rating calculations. So in that light the calculation is spot on in its wrongness. Smile

To make things more complicated: 4x200w = 800w. But the power supply in a 4200 is rated with 300w continuous delivery.

A 4200 cannot deliver 4 x 200 watt into 4 Ω, but a single channel can deliver 200w into 4 Ω in a given moment leaving 100w to be shared for the remaining three channels.

Or to put it another way the maximum power the 4200s 4 channels can deliver symmetrically is 300w divided by 4 = 75w.

Weird you think. False advertising?!

Not really: an amp-speaker system is dynamic and the power-demand and Ω resistance of the speakers changes continuously with the music signal. As David remarks it also is determined by the speakers efficiency. Some speakers have 100db per 1w efficiency meaning they get really loud with just one watt.

Typical efficiency will be around 85-86db per watt in one meter distance and this is what Linn speakers exhibit. 85db is already quite loud and a typical recording engineer will calibrate the sound level in his studio at ca. 86db.

A 86db speaker will only need 1 (one) watt from the amp to get to this level at one meter distance. Only a few more watts are needed to get 86db across the three meters on your sofa.

Of course all this is simplified and espc. bass speakers can momentarily sap more juice, depending on the music signal and design of the speaker. So having an amp that can deliver 50w or so is not a waste of watts.

It gets more complicated with multichannel amps like the 4200. Lets say we have a two-way bookshelf speaker where two channels feed the bass speakers and two channels the tweeters. Bass speakers need way more current than the tweeters, which at most will require 5w before going up in smoke.

So if both tweeters are at their maximum power requirement a 4200 would still have 290w or 145w per channel left for the bass drivers. Or if there is a loud bass-impulse on say the right bass channel it could draw 200w, leaving 90w for the left and 10w shared across the speakers. These figures will change every second with the musical flow.

With active it's different again, as the crossover now moves before the amp instead of being behind it. This makes for a much closer speaker-amp relationship and less power requirements.

I have a nice little passive system with an 8w amp in my studio. The speakers are rated at 93db and it gets really, really loud while staying crystal clear if necessary.

Long story short: it really depends on the individual speaker-amp pairing, the room and the kind of music you play. If its Drum & Bass it will be different than if its classical. I have a MDSM and its amp could drive a Kaber ok. Passive Kabers are quite insensitive and difficult loads.

Let us know what speakers you are considering, give them a try and report back.

http://www.last.fm/user/mcgillroy

MDSM/2 - 6100/D - active Kabers - Nubert 441w sub + Qobuz Sublime.
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2017-09-21, 12:53
Post: #7
RE: Majik DSM power enough?
(2017-09-21 11:47)mcgillroy Wrote:  To make things more complicated: 4x200w = 800w. But the power supply in a 4200 is rated with 300w continuous delivery.
A 4200 cannot deliver 4 x 200 watt into 4 Ω, but a single channel can deliver 200w into 4 Ω in a given moment leaving 100w to be shared for the remaining three channels.
It's not that easy either. Smile
You can't really compare AD and DC watts directly, and to make worse, much worse, a while ago Briain disclosed that he Dynamik powersupply -can- pull 35.6A, which at 230V and compensating for the alternating current is 35.6 x 1.4 x 230 = 11000W.
Obviously that would be devastating, but if I power-on all 5 of the the dynamic powersupplies in my setup at once, it gets dark very quickly, so they do pull at least 230x1.4x16/5= 1000W for a short while at startup.

Tin can telephone system.
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2017-09-21, 13:37
Post: #8
RE: Majik DSM power enough?
Thank you everyone for your feedback. It sounds like it's time for another listening road trip, always a good thing. Thanks again.
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