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Increasing M109 bass performance
2017-09-28, 17:33
Post: #21
RE: Increasing M109 bass performance
REL, Velodyne DD & JL Audio are always a safe buy.
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2017-09-28, 17:37
Post: #22
RE: Increasing M109 bass performance
David, I use an external headphones amplifier, using the line out of AK/1.

What I do not understand is if in ADSM the SO works also with analogue inputs (phono ...)

M.

LP12 / Kore / Trampolin 2 / Akito 2b / Radikal / Adikt / T-Kable
Cambridge CXN - Silver
AK/1 - Silver - A2200/1
K200/Knekt / M109
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2017-09-28, 17:52
Post: #23
RE: Increasing M109 bass performance
(2017-09-28 17:37)Matteo Wrote:  What I do not understand is if in ADSM the SO works also with analogue inputs (phono ...)

Yes, it does. Or rather, it works on the standard analogue and (where present) Exakt outputs, whatever source is feeding them. Of course, the inputs have to be digitised so that they can have SO applied, before they are fed back through the DAC.

On the ADSM, you can also, if you wish, bypass this process and feed the analogue inputs through an analogue volume control to the analogue out sockets. In this fully analogue configuration, Space Optimisation is of course not applied to the analogue outputs.

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
Second system: Kiko
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2017-09-28, 20:52
Post: #24
RE: Increasing M109 bass performance
(2017-09-28 17:33)Glyn Ruck Wrote:  REL, Velodyne DD & JL Audio are always a safe buy.
Sadly not quite, as far as REL is concerned anyway.

The older RELs, the St series (Stadium, Stentor, Storm, Strata and Stampede) were very good, but after mr. Lord sold the company it went downwards very quickly and the more modern REL subwoofers are a far cry from the older models. The newer models were configured more towards home cinema solutions (reflex ports, higher frequency crossovers).

It seems that BK Elec had been building most part of the old St Series, so their models resemble those the best, which makes them potentially very interesting.
Currently a few people have succesfully integrated BK Elec subs into their systems with somewhat smaller speakers, but I am hoping that Briain will order one too so he can test them with his 350s. Maybe I should send him a bottle of wine as an incentive. Wink
I really hope they pull it off: my old RELs won't live forever.

Tin can telephone system.
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2017-09-28, 21:54
Post: #25
RE: Increasing M109 bass performance
(2017-09-28 17:20)DavidHB Wrote:  Just after I went out (all of two hurs ago), there was this exchange:

(2017-09-28 15:29)Briain Wrote:  
(2017-09-28 15:02)Matteo Wrote:  I listen a lot to LP12 and via headphones, maybe SO could be a problem.
Moreover, I do not like the digital pre-amp in ADSM, in particular at low-volume.
I don't know whether SO is applied to the headphone output, but I assume that it might be. I also totally agree about DVC (I was about to append my post to cover that) and the one handy thing about the ADSM is that there are selectable fixed attenuators (12 dB or 24 dB) and enabling one of these significantly helps DVC sound acceptable. To be honest, the 12 dB should probably be enabled by default as that would likely suit most systems

In the fun and games that followed, I don't think that the factual points were answered, and they probably should be.

Space Optimisation is not applied to the headphone output on the ADSM, which has its own, quite respectable Class A amplifier.

The fixed analogue attenuation on the ADSM is set by default to -12dB. This means, in most systems, that you can set the volume control to 55 or even 60 for normal listening (depending on room size), and that should be well above the level at which the digital volume control (or, to be more correct, the whole sequence of digital processes) has issues with quantisation.

David

Hi David

Thank you vey much for chipping in with that info' as I had absolutely no idea how Linn dealt with the headphones (I've never plugged a set of 'cans' into my own box); that is very interesting (and indeed very useful to know about).

Bri :-)

KDS/1 (music) + ADSM (AV) -> KK/1 -> 350A + miniDSP time & phase aligned 345 rear sub
KDS Renew -> Homebrew fixed attenuator -> 2250/D -> 212 and Sizmik front sub (bedroom)
MDSI -> 104C (awaiting installation in my kitchen)
MDSI -> Shahinian Arc (installed at my mum's house)
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2017-09-29, 14:33 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-29 14:34 by Matteo.)
Post: #26
RE: Increasing M109 bass performance
(2017-09-28 11:06)charlie1 Wrote:  Don't know anyone that ever ran two 2200 in mono. Surely, you're much better off with KCT or saving for aktiv cards and 2nd hand 4200.

Considering the low 4 ohm impedance of the M109 (passive), in theory two A2200 in mono should drive them better ...

A s/h A2200 could be less than 2,000 € ...

LP12 / Kore / Trampolin 2 / Akito 2b / Radikal / Adikt / T-Kable
Cambridge CXN - Silver
AK/1 - Silver - A2200/1
K200/Knekt / M109
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2017-09-29, 14:52
Post: #27
RE: Increasing M109 bass performance
(2017-09-29 14:33)Matteo Wrote:  
(2017-09-28 11:06)charlie1 Wrote:  Don't know anyone that ever ran two 2200 in mono. Surely, you're much better off with KCT or saving for aktiv cards and 2nd hand 4200.

Considering the low 4 ohm impedance of the M109 (passive), in theory two A2200 in mono should drive them better ...

A s/h A2200 could be less than 2,000 € ...

I would have thought a single KCT/D would be significantly better though, probably a non-Dynamik Twin too, but less sure of that. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me unless you are want to go aktiv in the long term, but that would mean 3 power amps.
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2017-09-29, 16:16
Post: #28
RE: Increasing M109 bass performance
Another option came to mind: sell AK/1, A2200, CXN and go Exakt with MDSM / MExaktbox ...

LP12 / Kore / Trampolin 2 / Akito 2b / Radikal / Adikt / T-Kable
Cambridge CXN - Silver
AK/1 - Silver - A2200/1
K200/Knekt / M109
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2017-09-29, 16:20 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-29 16:21 by timster.)
Post: #29
RE: Increasing M109 bass performance
If you go MExaktbox, you can go AEDSM instead of MDSM (unless you have need of the analogue channels).
And you won't go wrong... Smile

Akurate EDSM | Majik ExaktBox-I [on Custom Design iRAPs] | Majik 140, REL T5
Rega RP1, [DS214play +Jitterbug, MinimServer], Kazoo [Linx1010]

AV: Marantz NR1506 | B&W 652(C), M1(S), REL T5 (LFE) | Fronts powered by Linn
Net: NetGear DGN2200 | GS108 | AQ Forest x3

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2017-09-29, 16:26 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-29 16:31 by Matteo.)
Post: #30
RE: Increasing M109 bass performance
(2017-09-29 16:20)timster Wrote:  If you go MExaktbox, you can go AEDSM instead of MDSM (unless you have need of the analogue channels).
And you won't go wrong... Smile

Yes, AEDSM and MDSM cost is near the same (€ 3,330 / € 3,150), but it seems that with AEDSM you have no chance to connect a pair of headphones, except using one digital out to an external DAC/heaphones amp, losing Exakt and having to spend extra money ...

As I underlined in a previous post, for me headphones are very important.

A smart solution could be to use one line-out of the Majik Exaktbox, configurable as fixed and with SO off, but (sadly) from LinnDocs it appears that these line-out are variable ...

LP12 / Kore / Trampolin 2 / Akito 2b / Radikal / Adikt / T-Kable
Cambridge CXN - Silver
AK/1 - Silver - A2200/1
K200/Knekt / M109
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