Linn Forums

Current time: 2017-10-23, 01:41 Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Linn Forums / Linn Music Systems & Hi-fi Separates / Troubleshooting v / Sound quality issues

Post Reply 
Sound quality issues
2017-10-09, 21:11
Post: #1
Sound quality issues
Hi, I've recently purchased an Akurate dsm and Akurate 4200 amp running B & W 805s stand mount speakers and to be honest I am really underwhelmed with the sound at the moment. I have spoken to my dealer who advised to set attenuation to zero which I have done and there has been a bit of an improvement. He has also suggested it may be a running in issue and to run it for at least 50- 75 hours. My problem is that the bass seems to be sadly lacking and the higher end seems a little too harsh. It is fair to say the demo with which I used my speakers sounded a lot different to what is being heard at home. Has any one else had similar issues and did things improve ? The only difference between my system and the shop demo is a mains power block. I fear spending a huge amount of money may yet come back to bite me and am a little worried to say the least. Any suggestions or advice would be most welcome.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-10-09, 21:22
Post: #2
RE: Sound quality issues
(2017-10-09 21:11)Jodmart Wrote:  Hi, I've recently purchased an Akurate dsm and Akurate 4200 amp running B & W 805s stand mount speakers and to be honest I am really underwhelmed with the sound at the moment. I have spoken to my dealer who advised to set attenuation to zero which I have done and there has been a bit of an improvement. He has also suggested it may be a running in issue and to run it for at least 50- 75 hours. My problem is that the bass seems to be sadly lacking and the higher end seems a little too harsh. It is fair to say the demo with which I used my speakers sounded a lot different to what is being heard at home. Has any one else had similar issues and did things improve ? The only difference between my system and the shop demo is a mains power block. I fear spending a huge amount of money may yet come back to bite me and am a little worried to say the least. Any suggestions or advice would be most welcome.

Have you checked that Space optimisation is fully disabled in Konfig? If that's on and not set correctly it can certainly kill the bass.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-10-09, 21:49
Post: #3
RE: Sound quality issues
(2017-10-09 21:22)ac16161 Wrote:  
(2017-10-09 21:11)Jodmart Wrote:  Hi, I've recently purchased an Akurate dsm and Akurate 4200 amp running B & W 805s stand mount speakers and to be honest I am really underwhelmed with the sound at the moment. I have spoken to my dealer who advised to set attenuation to zero which I have done and there has been a bit of an improvement. He has also suggested it may be a running in issue and to run it for at least 50- 75 hours. My problem is that the bass seems to be sadly lacking and the higher end seems a little too harsh. It is fair to say the demo with which I used my speakers sounded a lot different to what is being heard at home. Has any one else had similar issues and did things improve ? The only difference between my system and the shop demo is a mains power block. I fear spending a huge amount of money may yet come back to bite me and am a little worried to say the least. Any suggestions or advice would be most welcome.

Have you checked that Space optimisation is fully disabled in Konfig? If that's on and not set correctly it can certainly kill the bass.

Is it a new DSM or 2nd hand? If 2nd hand it could still be set up for another room. You say you've set the attenuation to zero but as above, you should really turn it off completely to be sure. If it's not set up for your room and has 'practical' speaker locations set up there will be filters in play that you can't see, so turn SO off completely.
On the other hand, if it's all new, get your dealer back. You've paid to have it set up so if you're not happy, get them back to do it again until you are.
Finally, are you sure the speakers are wired up correctly?

ADs/2 -> Klimax Exaktbox/1 -> Silvers -> 2xKCT/D -> K200 -> Ninka
Exaktbox Sub - BK Sub
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-10-09, 22:42
Post: #4
RE: Sound quality issues
First of all: that combo will make a lovely sound if set up properly

One major difference to the demo is your room (i assume it was at the dealer?), and the room is having quite an impact. So the correct position of the speaker is key - in addition to what was already mentioned concerning SO profiles that may still be used by the DSM.

And finally if using SO settings that fit to your room, things will improve even more.

So relax, you won‘t regret your purchase.

(Running in is IMHO not the reason for sound issues, it should sound well right away)

BY
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-10-10, 06:15
Post: #5
RE: Sound quality issues
As others have said, you probably need to do a bit of Tune Dem'ing first, although the lack of bass and harsh treble sounds like a Space Optimisation issue.
First principles - set up the speaker positions with SO turned off. Then do the Space optimisation for your room - there's plenty of advice here, and the Linn guide should help. Using SO's calculated values can often have the effect you describe, and if your room isn;t rectangular can be hard to get right. So may need addding some gain to the lowest mode, and even eliminating some of them.
Don't worry - it will come home Smile

Akurate EDSM | Majik ExaktBox-I [on Custom Design iRAPs] | Majik 140, REL T5
Rega RP1, [DS214play +Jitterbug, MinimServer], Kazoo [Linx1010]

AV: Marantz NR1506 | B&W 652(C), M1(S), REL T5 (LFE) | Fronts powered by Linn
Net: NetGear DGN2200 | GS108 | AQ Forest x3

Hello to Jason Isaacs
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-10-10, 07:31
Post: #6
RE: Sound quality issues
Post some pics of the room + Info of the exact dimensions. Lack of bass is most likely down to room interference and Space Optimization can help a great deal with it.

http://www.last.fm/user/mcgillroy

MDSM/2 - 6100/D - active Kabers - Nubert 441w sub + Qobuz Sublime.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-10-10, 14:44 (This post was last modified: 2017-10-10 15:02 by Briain.)
Post: #7
RE: Sound quality issues
(2017-10-09 21:11)Jodmart Wrote:  Hi, I've recently purchased an Akurate dsm and Akurate 4200 amp running B & W 805s stand mount speakers and to be honest I am really underwhelmed with the sound at the moment. I have spoken to my dealer who advised to set attenuation to zero which I have done and there has been a bit of an improvement. He has also suggested it may be a running in issue and to run it for at least 50- 75 hours. My problem is that the bass seems to be sadly lacking and the higher end seems a little too harsh. It is fair to say the demo with which I used my speakers sounded a lot different to what is being heard at home. Has any one else had similar issues and did things improve ? The only difference between my system and the shop demo is a mains power block. I fear spending a huge amount of money may yet come back to bite me and am a little worried to say the least. Any suggestions or advice would be most welcome.

Hi

Firstly, a very warm welcome to the Linn forum!! Smile

It is worth spending a significant amount of time experimenting with speaker positions and their toe-in. I don't know these speakers (and thus what they sound like) but I recently set up some stand mounted Linn speakers in by bedroom (Linn 212s) and despite me knowing how good they sounded (from my last house) they initially sounded pretty dreadful (very brash and bass light, not to mention poor imaging) but after a lot of positional experiments (and sometimes only 1 cm movement can make a huge difference) I now have them sounding pretty good. If you haven't done that with your B & W speakers, that would be the very first thing to spend lots of time experimenting with (distance from side walls - or in other words, distance between the speakers - distance from front wall and also toe-in); I really cannot stress strongly enough just how critically important that positional optimisation part is for any loudspeaker (and in any room); it can be the difference between utterly terrible sound and absolutely fantastic sound (and in general, the 'nicer' the speakers are, the more critical it is to get their positioning optimised).

Interesting to note what your dealer has stated about the attenuators as it is the opposite advice to what I would expect. The idea of the attenuator is to optimise the range over which the digital volume control operates. I don't know how efficient these speakers are (nor how big your room is and how loud you like to play the system) but in general, the optimal value for the attenuator setting choice is such that when playing it as loud as you ever want to play it, the indicated volume (on the DSM or on your control point; Kazoo, Kinsky or the likes) would be somewhere not too far below 80.

If you have a small room and these speakers are very efficient (or if you simply never play it massively loud) and thus you find that you never exceed the levels at which the volume on the DSM (or your control point) tends to be in the upper 60s, then switching in the 12 dB attenuator means the required volume setting (to achieve the equivalent levels of sound) will instead be in the 70s (which should sound better than no attenuator and instead using the volume control down in the 60s).

I have a very large lounge and I use an analogue preamp (so I don't use digital volume control; I leave my DS at fixed output - which is equivalent to a fixed setting of 'volume 80 - and use the preamp to control the system volume) but if I didn't have a preamp and thus elected to use a DSM with its digital volume control, likely I would want a 12 dB attenuator selected, even in that very big room.

For another example, I also have a Linn system in my bedroom and that comprises a KDS/0 directly into a 2250 power amp. As the bedroom is physically a lot smaller and the speakers are also a lot closer to me (so for the same perceived levels, the system is played at lower volumes than with the lounge system) and also due to it being a bedroom (so I tend to listen late at night and at slightly less volume than would otherwise be the case), I have made up fixed 20 dB attenuators for that system (as it is a DS - as opposed to a DSM - there are no selectable attenuators built into it; I just made my own one using resistors from my components 'junk box') and fitting these made for a very significant improvement to the sound (in the areas that you are commenting on). Without these attenuators, the indicated volume settings that I was typically using were in the 50's range (where DVC sounds quite poor, IMHO; cold, harsh and not very musical) but now, the levels used tend to be in the low 70s range (with my attenuators, about 77 would be the absolute maximum that I'd ever play that system at) and thus the DVC is operating in its optimal range and the system sounds far nicer for it.

Had I instead been using an ADSM in that room, I would likely have selected the 24 dB fixed attenuator option as that would be a more suitable value for that system and in that room (whereas as discussed above, the lounge would instead just require a 12 dB attenuator; with a 24 dB attenuator, the system would not go loud enough to suit my listening level requirements given the room size and the distance of the speakers; they're big speakers, but you almost need a set of binoculars to even see them)! Wink

Hope that helps explain the purpose and use of these fixed attenuator options in the DSM.

Bri Smile

KDS/1 (music) + ADSM (AV) -> KK/1 -> 350A + miniDSP time & phase aligned 345 rear sub
KDS Renew -> Homebrew fixed attenuator -> 2250/D -> 212 and Sizmik front sub (bedroom)
MDSI -> 104C (awaiting installation in my kitchen)
MDSI -> Shahinian Arc (installed at my mum's house)
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-10-10, 15:09
Post: #8
RE: Sound quality issues
I am assuming it is not so bass light that you have the speaker phase reversed on one speaker? Always worth checking from first principles!
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-10-12, 21:34
Post: #9
RE: Sound quality issues
Thanks all for the replies, I will now work through all the suggestions and feedback any progress. As if by magic when I used the system tonight I heard a huge difference without really doing anything at all. Just by leaving for 24 Hours and placing the speakers in optimal position it sounded something Like I would expect. Still plenty of listening to do until I feel totally happy but lots of options to explore. Should sleep a little more soundly tonight....
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-10-15, 22:03
Post: #10
RE: Sound quality issues
Interesting thread! We use a DS with KK and Solos. Digital volume control is disabled, We haven’t yet tried SO. Because the room is just medium size (about 2,000 cu. ft.), and the speakers are efficient, optimum volume is about 42-45 with the DS and 48-50 with phono. We satisfied with the sound of this system, but should we try attenuators anyway?

Along the same line, a couple of years ago I auditioned a DSM at home without the KK. So digital volume control. To me, the DS-KK system was much more musical—sweeter, more rhythmic, etc. Would attenuators have made a difference?

LP12/Keel/Radikal/Urika/EkosSE/sKale/Kandid; DS3 Katalyst; Unidisk 1.1; Klimax Kontrol; Solos; Tannoy Kensington SE/ST200 on Townsend iso stands; Sound Application SA1 power conditioner; Luminous Synchestra Ref ICs; LFD Grainfree Biwire spkr cables w/silver jumpers; Morph power cords
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)