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Davaar Beta 60.192 DSD Katalyst
2017-11-30, 17:10
Post: #1
Davaar Beta 60.192 DSD Katalyst
DSD on the Kat DS/DSM: That'll set the Kat amongst the pigeons Big Grin

ADs/2 -> Klimax Exaktbox/1 -> Silvers -> 2xKCT/D -> K200 -> Ninka
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2017-11-30, 17:14
Post: #2
RE: Davaar Beta 60.192 DSD Katalyst
(2017-11-30 17:10)phino Wrote:  DSD on the Kat DS/DSM: That'll set the Kat amongst the pigeons Big Grin

Interesting. Very interesting. Why DS only and not Exakt though? Can't the same not be done in the Katalyst DACs in the Exaktbox/350s?

Akurate EDSM | Majik ExaktBox-I [on Custom Design iRAPs] | Majik 140, REL T5
Rega RP1, [QNAP HS-251+, Jitterbug, MinimServer, Asset], Kazoo [Linx1010]

AV: Marantz NR1506 | B&W 620(C), M1(S), REL T5 (LFE) | Fronts powered by Linn
Net: NetGear DGN2200 | GS108 | AQ Forest x3

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2017-11-30, 17:31 (This post was last modified: 2017-11-30 17:31 by dubselect.)
Post: #3
RE: Davaar Beta 60.192 DSD Katalyst
So DSD was "a terrible idea in 2013", but now, in 2017, it is a good idea? What changed? Did I miss something? Rolleyes

KDSM (magical 4.19.797), K320A (Latest spec) + Original stands (DIY mod), K345
Accessories: Bertram Cuprio Flow cables; PS Audio P3; Isotek Aquarius Evo3; Symposium Rollerblock Series 2+, Jr. HDSE, Jr.+; Finite Elemente Cerapuc; SubDude; Vicoustic Wavewood.
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2017-11-30, 17:33
Post: #4
RE: Davaar Beta 60.192 DSD Katalyst
(2017-11-30 17:14)timster Wrote:  
(2017-11-30 17:10)phino Wrote:  DSD on the Kat DS/DSM: That'll set the Kat amongst the pigeons Big Grin

Interesting. Very interesting. Why DS only and not Exakt though? Can't the same not be done in the Katalyst DACs in the Exaktbox/350s?

The release notes simply say it's not available on the Exakt outputs. Given Katalyst was released on the DS/DSM first, I would expect the same approach and that Exaktbox and 350s will follow.

Given all the talking down of DSD vs PCM, it is a move I'm surprised to see. But if it sells more kit, who cares?

'troll
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2017-11-30, 17:42 (This post was last modified: 2017-11-30 17:43 by timster.)
Post: #5
RE: Davaar Beta 60.192 DSD Katalyst
(2017-11-30 17:31)dubselect Wrote:  So DSD was "a terrible idea in 2013", but now, in 2017, it is a good idea? What changed? Did I miss something? Rolleyes

Seems an about turn doesn't it? Odd that thread has a year in it anyway. If it's a terrible idea it's a terrible idea. What's significant about 2013? Did they say "Why we dropped the mic in 2016"?
Tongue

(2017-11-30 17:33)moomintroll Wrote:  
(2017-11-30 17:14)timster Wrote:  
(2017-11-30 17:10)phino Wrote:  DSD on the Kat DS/DSM: That'll set the Kat amongst the pigeons Big Grin

Interesting. Very interesting. Why DS only and not Exakt though? Can't the same not be done in the Katalyst DACs in the Exaktbox/350s?

The release notes simply say it's not available on the Exakt outputs. Given Katalyst was released on the DS/DSM first, I would expect the same approach and that Exaktbox and 350s will follow.

Given all the talking down of DSD vs PCM, it is a move I'm surprised to see. But if it sells more kit, who cares?

'troll

The reason it's not available on Exakt outputs is that that bypasses the DAC. So why mention it? It's like saying "this bicycle isn't suitable for a fish"!

Akurate EDSM | Majik ExaktBox-I [on Custom Design iRAPs] | Majik 140, REL T5
Rega RP1, [QNAP HS-251+, Jitterbug, MinimServer, Asset], Kazoo [Linx1010]

AV: Marantz NR1506 | B&W 620(C), M1(S), REL T5 (LFE) | Fronts powered by Linn
Net: NetGear DGN2200 | GS108 | AQ Forest x3

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2017-11-30, 18:28 (This post was last modified: 2017-11-30 18:37 by dubselect.)
Post: #6
RE: Davaar Beta 60.192 DSD Katalyst
(2017-11-30 17:42)timster Wrote:  Seems an about turn doesn't it? Odd that thread has a year in it anyway. If it's a terrible idea it's a terrible idea. What's significant about 2013? Did they say "Why we dropped the mic in 2016"?
Tongue
Well, yeah. But I suppose that this does not mean native DSD convertion to analog, as it will eliminate two important Linn features - digital volume control and SO.
As we all know, DSD is a "closed" format. It is not possible to change DFF/DSF file somehow without converting it to multibit format (PCM).
So the KDS/3 and KDSM/2 DSD compatibility means only one thing - now the owners of these devices should not bother about manual (or external) DSD->PCM convertion if they want to listen to some DSD recordings. New steamers will automatically make the convertion for them. It maybe a good feature for those who wanted to purchase Linn, but, due to many DSD albums in their collection, they were not dare to make this step as they face a problem - a need to convert all their collection to PCM.

In general, it means, that Linn DS(M) just became more versatile, as it can play more formats. But in reality DSD is still a bad idea. Big Grin

KDSM (magical 4.19.797), K320A (Latest spec) + Original stands (DIY mod), K345
Accessories: Bertram Cuprio Flow cables; PS Audio P3; Isotek Aquarius Evo3; Symposium Rollerblock Series 2+, Jr. HDSE, Jr.+; Finite Elemente Cerapuc; SubDude; Vicoustic Wavewood.
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2017-11-30, 19:34
Post: #7
RE: Davaar Beta 60.192 DSD Katalyst
(2017-11-30 17:31)dubselect Wrote:  So DSD was "a terrible idea in 2013", but now, in 2017, it is a good idea? What changed? Did I miss something? Rolleyes

Apparently hell’s not safe from climate change.

Seriously: Katalyst is based on the AKM 4497 DAC-chip. Does DSD—decoding for free. Question is if and how they do volume control.

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MDSM/2 - 6100/D - active Kabers - Nubert 441w sub + Qobuz Sublime.
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2017-11-30, 20:43
Post: #8
RE: Davaar Beta 60.192 DSD Katalyst
Oh goodie - I can now own the same music as an
LP
Cassette
CD
Hi-Res download
MQA
DSD
.
.
.Big Grin
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2017-11-30, 21:43
Post: #9
RE: Davaar Beta 60.192 DSD Katalyst
(2017-11-30 19:34)mcgillroy Wrote:  Katalyst is based on the AKM 4497 DAC-chip. Does DSD—decoding for free. Question is if and how they do volume control.

The statement in the release notes that there is no balance control is interesting in this regard. That implies that other functions you would expect at the analogue outputs of the DS(M), including volume control and SO, are supported in some way. The fact that DSD playback is not supported in Exakt could, I suppose, be an indication that the playback is 'native', without intermediate conversion to PCM. Or perhaps the Linn team have just not got round yet to implementing DSD playback in Exakt. We shall have to wait and see.

I agree with timster that this seeming U-turn does not necessarily reflect a change in Linn's technical opinion of DSD. It may be a marketing thing; any perception that a section of the customer (or dealer) base somehow regards the lack of DSD playback as a deal breaker will require a pragmatic response (perhaps with a bit of pride swallowing). I get the impression that the marketing and technical teams at Linn do not always see eye to eye. Perhaps this change is the result of an in house argument that marketing won. We'll never know.

David

Main system: [Basik/Basik+/K5/Lejonklou Gaio >][Roksan Kandy Mk III >] KEDSM > Akurate Exaktbox 10 > Linn Silvers> A4200 x 2 and A2200 > K600 > Akubariks
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2017-11-30, 21:47
Post: #10
RE: Davaar Beta 60.192 DSD Katalyst
Didn't the same thing happen with mp3? Originally they were dead set against, but then they implemented it and it became a bit of a turning point? Not sure of the details but that's the impression I have.

ADs/2 -> Klimax Exaktbox/1 -> Silvers -> 2xKCT/D -> K200 -> Ninka
Exaktbox Sub - BK Sub
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