Linn Forums

Current time: 2018-01-16, 14:30 Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Linn Forums / Announcements, News and Events / Linn Events v / Linn survives visit by Premier Inn Gang 11th Dec

Post Reply 
Linn survives visit by Premier Inn Gang 11th Dec
2017-12-25, 01:44 (This post was last modified: 2017-12-25 12:59 by Briain.)
Post: #21
RE: Linn survives visit by Premier Inn Gang 11th Dec
(2017-12-25 00:21)PaulW Wrote:  
(2017-12-24 13:25)Briain Wrote:  ....so whilst it sounded mighty excellent, the KDS sounded slightly better......

I'm with CJS on this - I thought the KDS was hugely better in this demo.

Paul.

Yes, totally agreed; after re-reading my post (as in the part quoted above) I realise that I was perhaps being a little too over diplomatic. Wink The odd thing is that I have heard a KDSM vs KDS demo in the distant past (though admittedly, both were of the KDS/1 vintage) and the difference didn't sound anything like as large as we'd heard on this occasion, so I am both a little puzzled - I was later wondering if something else was 'at play'; I know the HDMI board was meant to be disabled, but I wonder if it had accidentally been re-enabled, or some other such configuration issue had impacted upon the sound - and also a little reluctant to give too a strong an opinion, based just upon that brief comparison and using a short part of a tune that I wasn't particularly motivated by (and to be honest, these were the reasons why I didn't mention that particular demo in my long post describing the day's events).

As I mentioned in my previous post, on reflection I think that it would have been very interesting (and in many ways, also far more relevant) if we'd instead heard the KDSM vs a KDS+KK combination, as without my preamp, the KDS would be pretty much useless to me (I'd have no TV sound) so to my way of thinking, there's actually not much point in hearing just how good a KDS might sound when 'directly' driving an active system; it's sort of analogous to calculating how much better a sports car could accelerate if you were to take all of the seats out. Tongue

Bri Smile

KDS/1 (music) + ADSM (AV) -> KK/1 -> 350A + miniDSP time & phase aligned 345 rear sub
KDS Renew -> Homebrew fixed attenuator -> 2250/D -> 212 and Sizmik front sub (bedroom)
MDSI -> 104C (awaiting installation in my kitchen)
MDSI -> Shahinian Arc (installed at my mum's house)
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-12-25, 14:38
Post: #22
RE: Linn survives visit by Premier Inn Gang 11th Dec
(2017-12-25 01:44)Briain Wrote:  Yes, totally agreed; after re-reading my post (as in the part quoted above) I realise that I was perhaps being a little too over diplomatic. Wink The odd thing is that I have heard a KDSM vs KDS demo in the distant past (though admittedly, both were of the KDS/1 vintage) and the difference didn't sound anything like as large as we'd heard on this occasion

Was this particular comparison one that was requested prior to the visit, or one Linn chose to include? Based on these results it seems to indicate there is still a place in the world, even in the Linn world, for a separate analogue preamp, so I'm not sure what message this dem is sending?

ADSM/1 -> ATC SCM19A's
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-12-25, 19:36
Post: #23
RE: Linn survives visit by Premier Inn Gang 11th Dec
(2017-12-25 14:38)Music at Home Wrote:  
(2017-12-25 01:44)Briain Wrote:  Yes, totally agreed; after re-reading my post (as in the part quoted above) I realise that I was perhaps being a little too over diplomatic. Wink The odd thing is that I have heard a KDSM vs KDS demo in the distant past (though admittedly, both were of the KDS/1 vintage) and the difference didn't sound anything like as large as we'd heard on this occasion

Was this particular comparison one that was requested prior to the visit, or one Linn chose to include? Based on these results it seems to indicate there is still a place in the world, even in the Linn world, for a separate analogue preamp, so I'm not sure what message this dem is sending?

If that was the point of the test why was it comparing a '2' with a '3'. TBH I can't remember the differences between the different versions now anyway and so maybe it is obvious if I could.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-12-25, 20:29 (This post was last modified: 2017-12-25 23:12 by Briain.)
Post: #24
RE: Linn survives visit by Premier Inn Gang 11th Dec
Hi Martin

I think that the current (AKA Katalyst) ones are the KDS/3 and KDSM/2. When we heard it, I wasn't initially paying total attention to what was being changed and I initially wondered if the KDSM was pre-Katalyst (and having heard the difference Katalyst made last year, it greatly surprised me that the difference was massively smaller than I recalled; I was actually thinking ' hey, I could live with that difference if it saved me a few thousands of pounds') and as folks there might recall, I was a bit confused and after the tune finished, I did actually ask if both were Katalyst, and yes, they were both Katalyst models.

Don't get me wrong, I am most certainly not implying that the difference was anything like the scale of the difference between the pre-Katalyst and Katalyst demo that we all heard last year, but that the difference was a bit larger than I had expected and thus it did briefly confuse me as to exactly what exactly was being compared. As I said, far too brief a demo to assess it, not a tune I knew and perhaps something was even mus-configured (like the HDMI board being enabled). Of course, that raises another question; how much difference does enabling the HDMI board make (as in my case, it would have to be enabled)?

It does make me a lot happier about my current choice of having both an ADSM and KDS into the KK (best of all worlds if both were updated to Katalyst) but again, before considering doing these two upgrades, I really would have to listen to a Katalyst KDS+KK vs a KDSM, as if they have advanced DVC to the extent that it is non-destructive down to far lower volumes (and unbalancing the 350A feed doesn't bugger up the sound) then the latter could indeed still be the best sounding solution. One thing for sure is that though my current system does sound excellent, there is a very significant loss of information when compared to the Exakt Akubarik systems. Exakt for me would just be silly money (with KDSM update, Exaktbox Sub and modules, just shy of £38000 to upgrade my system) but it is time to think Katalyst and also time to double-check my views on keeping a preamp (which I still suspect might still be my preference, but it does now need checking out before I decide what my next move will be).

Bri Smile

KDS/1 (music) + ADSM (AV) -> KK/1 -> 350A + miniDSP time & phase aligned 345 rear sub
KDS Renew -> Homebrew fixed attenuator -> 2250/D -> 212 and Sizmik front sub (bedroom)
MDSI -> 104C (awaiting installation in my kitchen)
MDSI -> Shahinian Arc (installed at my mum's house)
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-12-25, 21:09
Post: #25
RE: Linn survives visit by Premier Inn Gang 11th Dec
(2017-12-25 20:29)Briain Wrote:  I think that the current (AKA Katalyst) ones are the KDS/3 and KDSM/2.

You're right, KDSM/2 and KDS/3 are the currently available Katalyst streamers. As the first KDSM was introduced 4 years after the KDS/0 (and a few month later than the KDS/1) in 2011, the KDSM's revision number lags one behind since then, although they essentially represent the same technology level.

AEDSM > KEB/1 x 2 > Linn Silvers > A4200/1 x 2 > K200 > MISOs
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-12-25, 21:26
Post: #26
RE: Linn survives visit by Premier Inn Gang 11th Dec
(2017-12-25 21:09)BB1 Wrote:  
(2017-12-25 20:29)Briain Wrote:  I think that the current (AKA Katalyst) ones are the KDS/3 and KDSM/2.

You're right, KDSM/2 and KDS/3 are the currently available Katalyst streamers. As the first KDSM was introduced 4 years after the KDS/0 (and a few month later than the KDS/1) in 2011, the KDSM's revision number lags one behind since then, although they essentially represent the same technology level.

It's a numeric discrepancy that could indeed cause some confusion - particularly when you have a brain as tiny as my one - so that is why I think it's simpler to refer to them as just Katalyst and pre-Katalyst. When Katalyst came out, they maybe should have taken the opportunity to harmonise the names between models and instead called them something like KDS/K and KDSM/K (or something else along those lines)?

Of course, the situation will be further complicated when they bring out Katalyst ADS and ADSMs as when you then consider the entire DS range, the numbering will be all over the shop! Maybe they should have called these models the 'Turbo' versions and then stuck big dayglo orange 'Turbo DS' labels on the KDS front panel? Tongue

Bri Smile

KDS/1 (music) + ADSM (AV) -> KK/1 -> 350A + miniDSP time & phase aligned 345 rear sub
KDS Renew -> Homebrew fixed attenuator -> 2250/D -> 212 and Sizmik front sub (bedroom)
MDSI -> 104C (awaiting installation in my kitchen)
MDSI -> Shahinian Arc (installed at my mum's house)
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-12-25, 23:22
Post: #27
RE: Linn survives visit by Premier Inn Gang 11th Dec
If taking every major upgrade of the hardware into account, your suggested naming scheme would also very soon become sort of confusing and for sure very long, albeit harmonized. The current Klimax streamers are KDS(M)/E/H2.0/K (E for the Exakt Link output, H2.0 for HDMI 2.0 which is only available on the DSM and K for Katalyst). Wink

If you should ever take the Exakt route, be prepared for further numeric discrepancies. The latest filter release for my Misos on my former AEB10 was 5.0, whereas it is 1.0 on my current Klimax Katalyst Exaktboxes.

AEDSM > KEB/1 x 2 > Linn Silvers > A4200/1 x 2 > K200 > MISOs
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-12-26, 00:52
Post: #28
RE: Linn survives visit by Premier Inn Gang 11th Dec
(2017-12-25 23:22)BB1 Wrote:  If taking every major upgrade of the hardware into account, your suggested naming scheme would also very soon become sort of confusing and for sure very long, albeit harmonized. The current Klimax streamers are KDS(M)/E/H2.0/K (E for the Exakt Link output, H2.0 for HDMI 2.0 which is only available on the DSM and K for Katalyst). Wink

If you should ever take the Exakt route, be prepared for further numeric discrepancies. The latest filter release for my Misos on my former AEB10 was 5.0, whereas it is 1.0 on my current Klimax Katalyst Exaktboxes.

Maybe I should just give in and buy a Sonos before my head explodes? Tongue Big Grin

KDS/1 (music) + ADSM (AV) -> KK/1 -> 350A + miniDSP time & phase aligned 345 rear sub
KDS Renew -> Homebrew fixed attenuator -> 2250/D -> 212 and Sizmik front sub (bedroom)
MDSI -> 104C (awaiting installation in my kitchen)
MDSI -> Shahinian Arc (installed at my mum's house)
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)