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Linn Klimax DS/3 without preamp
2018-05-05, 10:13
Post: #11
RE: Linn Klimax DS/3 without preamp
(2018-05-05 10:01)jwdude Wrote:  Would “no preamp” also be the advice for ADS/2?

(Vs my Exotik/D into 5125/D)
As of Katalyst you can really do without a pre, although there will still be people who like the effect that a Klimax Kontrol brings to the party.
Before Katalyst opinions differed more widely, mostly because the Digital Volume Control worked better at higher volumes, so room size and speaker sensitivity had a huge effect.
The previous DVC works good at higher volumes, but if your room is small and your speakers are sensitive you'll notice a degradition.
If you can afford an older ADS but not the Katalyst upgrade, an ADSM is probably better as that has an anologue attentuater, removing 12 or even 24dB from the volume, making it possible to run closer to 80, without being blown away.

Tin can telephone system.
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2018-05-05, 10:37
Post: #12
RE: Linn Klimax DS/3 without preamp
if your friend has a Klimax DS/3 and you want to find out if it works direct to amp maybe he can bring it over ... try before you decide if you can live without a pre-amp
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2018-05-05, 12:52 (This post was last modified: 2018-05-05 13:15 by Briain.)
Post: #13
RE: Linn Klimax DS/3 without preamp
(2018-05-05 10:13)Tin Wrote:  
(2018-05-05 10:01)jwdude Wrote:  Would “no preamp” also be the advice for ADS/2?

(Vs my Exotik/D into 5125/D)
As of Katalyst you can really do without a pre, although there will still be people who like the effect that a Klimax Kontrol brings to the party.
Before Katalyst opinions differed more widely, mostly because the Digital Volume Control worked better at higher volumes, so room size and speaker sensitivity had a huge effect.
The previous DVC works good at higher volumes, but if your room is small and your speakers are sensitive you'll notice a degradition.
If you can afford an older ADS but not the Katalyst upgrade, an ADSM is probably better as that has an anologue attentuater, removing 12 or even 24dB from the volume, making it possible to run closer to 80, without being blown away.

I am one of these irritating [to Linn} people who thinks digital volume control on a KDS/0 or KDS/1 sounds utterly dreadful at lower volumes; to me, it sounds very cold and unmusical. That said, I will be intrigued to find out how DVC sounds in the new Katalyst range as based upon what Murray said about the increased word depth, I have high hopes that it might now sound acceptable. As you say, a few folks who went for the KDS -> Katalyst update seem to like it, whereas others prefer a preamp, so I will just have to see for myself.

As an addition to Tin's post, yes, if considering a pre-Katalyst DS then the ADSM is the obvious one to consider as it does have that useful option to switch in 12 or 24 dB of analogue attenuation in order to facilitate DVC working in its optimal range, but it's worth noting that you can make your own external attenuators to go with a standard DS (anything from Sneaky up to Klimax levels). Each channel needs a couple of resistors (so they just cost a few pennies) and you can see a prototype of same, below:

[Image: attachment.php?aid=12058]


As you can see, that was slapped up in a hurry (to cure the dreadful sound I discovered after buying a KDS/0 Renew and enabling DVC) and left open such that I could easily experiment with the resistor values. Ultimately, I could increase its attenuation by a dew dB as with it being in a bedroom, I never play it at anywhere near volume level 80 (which now sounds like volume level 62) but even as it is, it was satisfactory enough for me to not require my Lejonklou preamp (in some key ways, that does sound better - it's more musical - but the attenuator and DVC does sound clearer; I think a few more dB would swing it to being preferable to the preamp, but I never got around to trying).

Of course, that prototype is just 4 RCA sockets and a piece of low grade printed circuit board raked from my stores (cool thing is that it was so easy to work; drilling it is a breeze and I simply dug a trench in the copper to split the channels) but whilst the 4 sockets were cheap, the additional [short, home-brew] Linn 'Silver' cables cost a few pounds (mostly for the RCA plugs) but the time to build it was quite low, so it's maybe something a local HiFi dealer (or even a technical friend) could construct one for you at a reasonable price?

Ultimately, my plan was to figure out the optimal values (for my room, system and listening levels) then either build a posh version (perhaps even switchable in 10 dB increments) or use tiny (very low power rated) resistors to build it into the RCA connectors on a pair of Linn 'Silver' interconnects. That would be a big fiddly, but it would make a very nice job and also it would remove the additional connections (the plugs and sockets shown in the above photograph) so it would be a very cool solution and the only cost would be the bandages to cover the burned fingers acquired during its assembly! Wink

All that said, a very good friend of mine has (had) an ADS/0 (used with a Unidisk SC and elderly Akurate 242 system) and has no intentions of ever upgrading it, so we swapped and he now has my KDS/0 Renew and my plan is to update the ADS/0 to an ADSM Katalyst, so that is why I haven't done any more work on the external attenuators.

Anyhow, it's just a thought to bear in mind. If you wish the full range of volumes (to occasionally play it very loud indeed) then attenuators might not be the best solution for your own circumstances, but if not (say you never play it above '65') then it's worth noting that they can provide a cheap way to optimise the DVC with a product that doesn't have the fixed attenuators feature (so basically, anything other than an ADSM). In that example (where you never need to exceed 65) then adding two 15 dB fixed attenuators will bring the DVC more into its 'Goldilocks range' (the term being borrowed from the range where inhabitable planets reside within a solar system).

Bri Smile

NB The ADS/0 and fixed attenuators sounds remarkably good in my 2250 system. I was almost tempted to not bother, but I do rather like the idea of trying a Katalyst ADSM for that system (mega-decadent considering the amount of times it's used, but hey, you only live once).

KDS/1 (music) + ADSM (AV) -> KK/1 -> 350A + miniDSP time & phase aligned 345 rear sub
ADS/0 -> Homebrew fixed attenuator -> 2250/D -> 212 and Sizmik front sub (bedroom)
MDSI -> 104C (awaiting installation in my kitchen)
MDSI -> Shahinian Arc (installed at my mum's house)
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