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highflyer · 2009-11-21, 21:10

Well I am surprised, but I shouldn't be really. I always thought that downloads would be the future, but the far future. I guess that's almost here.

I still prefer my CDs -- I suppose I'm old fashioned. I'd like to get into downloads, but it seems too complicated (and I've been using a computer at work for 20 years). When they make it easier, I'll switch.

plug 65 · 2009-11-21, 21:10

(2009-11-21 20:52)rowlandhills Wrote: I disagree that there are no good mid-price products. What about the Sneaky DS, Majik DS and Majik DS-I

Indeed I agree with Rolandhills comments, I think those products are also cheaper than the linn cd players and are terrific value as the ds`s sonicaly punch well above their weight when compared pound for pound financially to any cd player on the market, from what i hear about the performance of the sneaky ds it is in fact a bargain given the quality of it`s performance.

plug 65

highflyer · 2009-11-21, 21:24

I'm going to make a prediction. This is just my opinion but here goes.

In maybe 5 years, when other hi end companies see that cd sales have continued to drop and downloads have continued to increase (and CDs and downloads each are approaching 50% of total sales (and lp's are still increasing too but that's another story), they start to make ds players too. Then it takes maybe 5 more years for downloads to become fairly mainstream -- that's when things (downloading) will become easier, i.e., people with limited computer knowledge can do it. The connectivity issues and software issues, etc. will be improved.

ThomasOK · 2009-11-21, 21:33

(2009-11-21 05:41)Happy Harry Wrote: The Linn spin doctoring machine is working just fine, thank you. I read with interest the announcement that Linn is discontinuing 4 units, 3 of which just happen to share the same transport mechanism. And I don't think that's a coincidence. In about 5-7 years replacement of mechanisms for the Music 08/Movie 05/Majik CD will no longer be possible and an End Of Service Life will be issued for these products. I'm betting dollars to doughnuts that Linn found themselves in a situation where the folks who supply them with the transport used in Music 08/Movie 05/Majik CD were giving them one last kick at the can for a supply of mechanisms prior to this unit being withdrawn from manufacturing. They brought in sufficient quantities to look after their projected service needs for the next 5 years and then Linn took a close look at the cost of having to redesign those 3 units and quickly decided that projected future sales of these units was insufficient to warrant the engineering effort and these products were simply eliminated from the merchandise mix. The AK CD was simply a victim of a convenient spin they needed to put on this development and I rather suspect the AK CD wasn't exactly setting the world on fire anyway in terms of sales, so why keep it around.

That's my 2 cents worth.....

Where did you see the report showing the models to be discontinued? So far my searches have only found general statements but no listing of models departing.

Whatever the case, Linn has certainly created a huge amount of buzz on the internet about this. It will definitely lead to more people becoming aware of the idea of high-quality streaming. Unfortunately, most of the press coverage doesn't really make the distinction between high-res downloads and MP3s very clear leading to a fair bit of misunderstanding from what I've seen in the comments on the news sites.

Laurie · (This post was last modified: 2009-11-21 21:37 by Laurie.)

(2009-11-21 21:24)highflyer Wrote: I'm going to make a prediction. This is just my opinion but here goes.

In maybe 5 years, when other hi end companies see that cd sales have continued to drop and downloads have continued to increase (and CDs and downloads each are approaching 50% of total sales (and lp's are still increasing too but that's another story), they start to make ds players too. Then it takes maybe 5 more years for downloads to become fairly mainstream -- that's when things (downloading) will become easier, i.e., people with limited computer knowledge can do it. The connectivity issues and software issues, etc. will be improved.

I think it might be a lot qucker than 5 years.

Just think how dramatic the switch was in the mid 2000s from VHS recorders to DVD recorders and then two years later to LCD tvs.

If other manufuctures get involved (especially the Japanese) then prices will drop.

(2009-11-21 20:52)rowlandhills Wrote: I disagree that there are no good mid-price products. What about the Sneaky DS, Majik DS (which only needs a power amp) and Majik DS-I?

All are superb sources, all have good preamps, and two have pretty good power amps too!

I agree the products are good - very good.

What's considered in 2009 prices as "mid priced"?

Siddhartha · (This post was last modified: 2009-11-21 21:42 by Siddhartha.)

I think downloading music is easy. Everyone using a mp3-player or iPod can do it today, and does it.
The sound quality for us HiFi freaks is the issue, but there is not only DS good enough for most of us.
It's not so difficult to connect your PC via USB to an external DAC and hear your music on this way on the HiFi (working with iTunes or Windows Media Player is also easy). And it's very easy to copy musiv from the PC on a USB stick or an external harddrive and connect them to new cd players or new TVs or modern compact HiFi systems, which nearby all have connections for USB. Lots of people us their iPod with a dock as source for their HiFi.

Regarding to streaming solutions (what means music over TCP/IP network), there are many easier solutions than Linn DS or Naim: Sonos, TEAC WAP, Squeezebox, ...
Linn is the best solution regarding music quality, but using a Squeezebox or an iPod seems to be the future in the main market for me!

So I don't see who will need cd players or buy CDs in some years. Some will still love it, but not many.

plug 65 · 2009-11-21, 21:42

(2009-11-21 21:10)highflyer Wrote: Well I am surprised, but I shouldn't be really. I always thought that downloads would be the future, but the far future. I guess that's almost here.

I still prefer my CDs -- I suppose I'm old fashioned. I'd like to get into downloads, but it seems too complicated (and I've been using a computer at work for 20 years). When they make it easier, I'll switch.

Highflyer installing a ds should be a breeze for you if you have been useing a computer for twenty years,however i agree that many people are perhaps put off from taking the ds route as it is seen as rather complicated to do, i am very new to computers and ds and i installed the system without to much trouble. the dealer where you bought any ds will install the set up for you,as you know this forum is terrific in showing you the way to go if help is needed. personally i do not miss my cd player at all,it is collecting dust, i must say that i would like to have either a majik or akurate cd player as back up but i do not think i would use it too often because i like to line a load of music up and just let it play without having to turn over or change disks. for me it is all about quality of sound.when it is all up and running it is a joy to use.

plug 65

ThomasOK · 2009-11-21, 22:11

(2009-11-21 21:24)highflyer Wrote: I'm going to make a prediction. This is just my opinion but here goes.

In maybe 5 years, when other hi end companies see that cd sales have continued to drop and downloads have continued to increase (and CDs and downloads each are approaching 50% of total sales (and lp's are still increasing too but that's another story), they start to make ds players too. Then it takes maybe 5 more years for downloads to become fairly mainstream -- that's when things (downloading) will become easier, i.e., people with limited computer knowledge can do it. The connectivity issues and software issues, etc. will be improved.

I agree with the general trend of your comments but not the timeline. Apple is already far and away the largest seller of music in the US and quite big in other markets as well. Downloading is quickly becoming the preferred format for the mass-market music consumer. What the DS allows is the high-end market to take part in the accessibility and simplicity of streamed music while having access to higher quality music reproduction than has been previously available from digital sources. Other companies are already coming out with streaming media products: Naim has the HDX and Uniti and Arcam has the AVR600 that all handle streaming audio. Others are also offering units from Squeezebox and Sonos to Kaliedascape and Sooloos. There are also numerous companies making DACs with USB and other interfaces to handle computer music. So I see this as something that is making rapid progress and I think that the point at which download sales outstrip CD sales is likely only a couple of years away.

The biggest problems now are that the server and connection side are not as simple and solid as they should be and that there isn't one standard way of connecting. The industry has yet to coalesce around any standards. Linn has made a good step by putting the emphasis on DS/Ethernet as the preferred connection method and there looks to be a good chance that UPnP/DLNA could become the universal, easy to use server platform that it is currently only promising to be. But it is certainly true that the software and connection side need further development to be as simple to use as they need to be for broad acceptance.

As usual the industry is going a bunch of different ways: USB DACs, FireWire DACs, internal PC cards or network devices feeding DACs through S/PDIF, etc. Even within companies there is lack of consistency as Naim has just released their first DAC and it doesn't have a network connection! Since they already have the two network connected units mentioned above this seems like a strange move to me.

I don't expect all these other methods of connecting to go away, but I do believe the trend will be towards network connections for their ability to share music throughout the house and the robustness of the connection. And it does look like iTunes and UPnP are likely to be the dominant ways to store and manage your music. Wouldn't it be great if Apple juiced up iTunes so that it supported FLAC, 24/192 files and accurate ripping and then Linn created a way to use iTunes as a server/control platform to feed the DS units? It could make the use and acceptance of these products so much easier.

However that all settles out I would bet on two years for download sales to exceed CD sales and 5 years for streamed music to become pretty universally accepted. And I still expect vinyl to continue to gradually increase market share and become an accepted, much enjoyed part of many people's lives.

samurai7595 · 2009-11-21, 23:37

Stereophile:
http://www.stereophile.com/news/linn_aba...d_players/

MattC · (This post was last modified: 2009-11-22 00:01 by MattC.)

(2009-11-21 21:36)Laurie Wrote:
(2009-11-21 21:24)highflyer Wrote: I'm going to make a prediction. This is just my opinion but here goes.

In maybe 5 years, when other hi end companies see that cd sales have continued to drop and downloads have continued to increase (and CDs and downloads each are approaching 50% of total sales (and lp's are still increasing too but that's another story), they start to make ds players too. Then it takes maybe 5 more years for downloads to become fairly mainstream -- that's when things (downloading) will become easier, i.e., people with limited computer knowledge can do it. The connectivity issues and software issues, etc. will be improved.

I think it might be a lot qucker than 5 years.

Just think how dramatic the switch was in the mid 2000s from VHS recorders to DVD recorders and then two years later to LCD tvs.

If other manufuctures get involved (especially the Japanese) then prices will drop.

...i think people are missing the point - i suspect Linn are stopping making CD players because they have identified, brought to market, and succeeded with a product that plays CD better than any CD player...

Even with DS; CD is still the principal source of Data, not downloads...and that will still be the case for a long long time in my view...

Sure - I still prefer something physical for my money - i don't want to p@@s about with PDF's to find out who played the bass on a certain track, i want to thumb through a booklet.

But fundamentally, ask yourself if you see IBM, Apple, Dell, Lenovo or any of the computer manufacturers dropping CD (or DVD) any time soon in favour of pure downloads - the answer is no!

This is because CD is still a very convenient way of shipping large quantities of "licence paid" data...and large quantities of the data that the computer manufacturers will continue to expect to support the transfer of will be CD based music.

The DS market simply would not exist if CD's disappeared tomorrow.

What Linn have done is recognised that Digital Streaming is the future of music reproduction; this does not naturally lead to the death of CD, just the death of the domestic CD player as a HiFi source.