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LP12 sub-chassis - The 'RubiKon'
2010-04-16, 20:25
Post: #71
RE: LP12 sub-chassis - The 'RubiKon'
I'm sure Peter will post soon.

LP12/Maple/Cirkus/RubiKon/Radikal/ARO/ASAKA
PrefixK/DIY PSU
FlatNAC72/Dual PSU/NAP135s/Boogieing with Sara
AudioFlat.co.uk - home of the RubiKon
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2010-04-16, 22:23
Post: #72
RE: LP12 sub-chassis - The 'RubiKon'
(2010-04-16 20:18)eye-fi Wrote:  It would be nice to hear it in his own fluent words tho' may have something to add or takeaway of interest.

Well, it will have to be very brief, as I've just got home from the shop - I've been preparing invites for our "unlock your vinyl" event in May and setting up some demonstrations for first thing tomorrow - Catching up on stuff generally and I'm a bit knackered..... happy, but knackered!Rolleyes

Anyway, I’m glad to have been of assistance to Andrew and Mark. - It was a good day..........................

Yes I did prefer the Keel and the differences in presentation were as Andrew and Mark have indicated. The Rubikon’s presentation was more etched, more forward and for me, it didn’t follow tunes quite as well as the Keel.

I found the set-up of the suspension a little more tricky than with the Keel and expressed this to Mark who explained the reasons why and a small change would feed into production examples. I also expressed the need for a second earth point, just in case people wish to use the Urika phono stage due to potential chassis earth wire fouling on the top of the Urika. That said however, this is a very serious sub-chassis alternative to the Keel IMHO – Yes the best I have heard to date after a Keel.

Would I change from my Keel ? – No I wouldn’t. However, I do believe it will be of very significant interest to users who wish to upgrade their LP12s and have discounted the Keel already due to the cost or perhaps because for similar money they would now be far better to upgrade with the Radikal first.

The Rubikon is also is of significant interest to those Aro/LP12 users for example, who now may be struggling to find Keels for Aro, as only one or two dealers worldwide have stock now due to demand.

I was told the Rubikon will be made available with cut-outs for Linn, Aro and Rega arms, possibly even SME if there is demand. So, I’ll look forward to comparing an Aro version against the Keel/A.

In brief summary, a really good product showing much promise and if it can sell for less than say £1500.00 here in the UK IMHO will fill what I consider to be a significant niche in the market...... something much better than the steel sub-chassis IMHO, but at a lower price point to the Keel.

Certainly worthy of serious consideration and if it allows people to upgrade to a Radikal sooner than would have been the case with a Keel. This may well prove to be a way of unlocking more musical enjoyment from one’s LPs even sooner than one might have imagined....... and without losing out too much in the musicality stakes IMHO.

At the end of the day, you need to do as I have done......... Go and have a listen if you can, and make your own mind up.

IMHO, the most musical non Linn sub-chassis I have heard to date..... and by quite a long way too.

KR

Peter...... Off to get some food now!Rolleyes

Fettling LP12s since 1980
Tel 01162 623754
Email - peter@cymbiosis.com
Skype - peteratcymbiosis
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2010-04-16, 22:44
Post: #73
RE: LP12 sub-chassis - The 'RubiKon'
Thanks for that. I was in no rush for the review. So if you find some further time next week perhaps you'd like to add more but to be honest I think you've said all that is necessary unless there's something that's at the back of your mind you've not had time to put 'pen' to paper.
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2010-04-17, 15:49
Post: #74
RE: LP12 sub-chassis - The 'RubiKon'
I have to say I find the latest series of posts very encouraging. The Rubikon certainly sounds like it could be a worthwhile alternative for those who can't (or wont) afford a Keel but would like to improve on the standard subchassis. With Peter's usual attention to detain in the setting up of the turntables I can be confident that things were being compared properly and the results speak for themselves. With the Radikal now taking pride of place as the first upgrade to perform on most LP12s a subchassis that gives a fair portion of the improvement of the Keel for a fair bit less money seems to be well placed in the market to me. I also feel the Rubikon would be a great alternative for those with non-Linn arms. I look forward to hearing more about this as production commences.

I must offer congratulations to Mark and Andrew for using the direction that the Keel made evident to create a unique and original subchassis design rather than just making a cheap and inferior copy of the Keel. That you have also made an item that appears to provide quality musical performance for a reasonable price and does not make the LP12 sound like a different table is commendable and I'm sure required more work than might immediately be apparent. It is no mean feat to make an alternative part for an LP12 that actually improves the performance as is clear by the large number of "upgrades" that just plain don't work. Products from people like you, Chris Harban and Fredrik Lejonklou are encouraging for all of us who don't have unlimited budgets but would still like systems that are truly musical and close to the best.

LP12 SE Movingui • Radikal/1 • Kandid • Urika • Kremlin • LS-NAS • Akurate DS • Klimax Kontrol/2 • ATC 100As • Harmoni Mimer Rack
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2010-04-17, 17:06 (This post was last modified: 2010-04-17 17:08 by YNWaN.)
Post: #75
RE: LP12 sub-chassis - The 'RubiKon'
Many thanks Thomas, your kind comments very much reflect our intention with the development of the RubiKon. In developing this chassis/armboard I didn't want to try to turn the LP12 into something it was never intended to be; the chassis had to be sympathetic to the sound of the LP12 and the systems it would be in (whilst meeting the needs of the user).

As you suggest, Peter went to every effort possible to ensure that the comparisons made were as fair and equal as they could possibly be.

Designer of the AudioFlat RubiKon
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2010-04-17, 18:31
Post: #76
RE: LP12 sub-chassis - The 'RubiKon'
Thanks Thomas.

We have done what we set out to do. Improve on the std subchassis but keep the LP12 sound intact.

Andrew.

LP12/Maple/Cirkus/RubiKon/Radikal/ARO/ASAKA
PrefixK/DIY PSU
FlatNAC72/Dual PSU/NAP135s/Boogieing with Sara
AudioFlat.co.uk - home of the RubiKon
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2010-04-17, 18:58
Post: #77
RE: LP12 sub-chassis - The 'RubiKon'
(2010-04-16 12:26)flatpopely Wrote:  PB.

What did you think?

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

It was a pleasure to meet you both at Peters on Thursday, appologies for the delay in writing.

It would have been interesting to hear the Rubikon against a standard LP12 but I didn't get the opportunity as I only had alimited amount of time.

I did however get to hear the Ruibon's LP12 against a Keel'd LP12. I have to say both decks wre enjoyable and there were clear diffrences between the two products. The Rubikon seemed to me to be more forward and direct. It had a rawer edge, a more seat of your pants feel to it, deeper bass and a tad more exciting. However I found the keel to be more fluid in the midrange and a tad more refined. Listening to the keel'd version for me it was easier to follow single instruments and voices and it timed just that little bit better.

It therefore comes down to personal prefernece, more forward and alive versus refinement and musicality. However the price factor cannot be ignored. For the money the Rubikon is very good value for money but for me the extra would be worth paying for,

Regards

PB
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2010-04-17, 20:27 (This post was last modified: 2010-04-17 20:45 by YNWaN.)
Post: #78
RE: LP12 sub-chassis - The 'RubiKon'
Very nice to meet you too PB, and what a happy coincidence that you should choose to pop in at that time Smile.

Designer of the AudioFlat RubiKon
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2010-04-18, 00:43
Post: #79
RE: LP12 sub-chassis - The 'RubiKon'
I have just seen Adam M on the Naim forum has taken Andrews posting rights away.?????
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2010-04-18, 08:27
Post: #80
RE: LP12 sub-chassis - The 'RubiKon'
Apparently because the only trade members allowed on the forum are Naim and their dealers.

Oh well, I guess it's their forum.

Glad as ever that this forum doesn't operate like that. And no harm comes of it, proving it to be the right decision IMO.

Linn: LP12/Cirkus/Tramp2/MOSE/Khan/Nima/Adikt, 3x C6100, M140 aktiv, M112 aktiv, 2x M109 aktiv. Also: Marantz AV7005 pre/pro, BK Monolith DF sub, BDP-S480 Blu Ray, EP35 HD-DVD, Sky HD, HTPC, JVC DLA-X3 3D projector, Beamax 84" fixed screen, 2 cheapo rear speakers.
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