Fixed IP for DS's possible??

[jwka]

Hi,

to keep my network (and that of people I consult) in a proper and predicable setup, I'd like to have fixed IP's for as many devices as possible. For most parts that I am using and recommending, this is possible (even for squeezeplayers, that play in the far cheaper massmarket segment).

Any way to set Klimax, Majik and the other DS's to a fixed IP? In the config, I have not found any way to do so. Overlooked it? Special parameter? Command line?

PLEASE: NO ANSWERS LIKE "set the DHCP server accordingly". That is a theoretical bullshit that works NOT with most private installations where "dumb" routers serve as DHCP servers giving only a range for DHCP and the same lease time for all DHCP's etc. etc..

To have really propper setups, one would like to segment the address room into ranges like 1 - 30 == dynamic, 40 - 50 == Servers, 51 - 60 == Controllers, 240 - 254 == Infrastructure etc. etc.

Being in the situation to remotely controll multiple installations, this makes good sense to be able to send ping etc..

Thx.
jwka

[rowlandhills]

Please try searching for information like this. A search for "Fixed IP" brings up a number of threads on this topic, including this one:

http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.p...t=Fixed+ip

Unfortunately the UPnP standard states that you must not allow a fixed IP address to be used, only DHCP, so for Linn to be compliant with the standard they can't let you set a static IP address.

[DaveWr]

(2010-03-21 23:43)jwka Wrote:  Hi,

to keep my network (and that of people I consult) in a proper and predicable setup, I'd like to have fixed IP's for as many devices as possible. For most parts that I am using and recommending, this is possible (even for squeezeplayers, that play in the far cheaper massmarket segment).

Any way to set Klimax, Majik and the other DS's to a fixed IP? In the config, I have not found any way to do so. Overlooked it? Special parameter? Command line?

PLEASE: NO ANSWERS LIKE "set the DHCP server accordingly". That is a theoretical bullshit that works NOT with most private installations where "dumb" routers serve as DHCP servers giving only a range for DHCP and the same lease time for all DHCP's etc. etc..

To have really propper setups, one would like to segment the address room into ranges like 1 - 30 == dynamic, 40 - 50 == Servers, 51 - 60 == Controllers, 240 - 254 == Infrastructure etc. etc.

Being in the situation to remotely controll multiple installations, this makes good sense to be able to send ping etc..

Thx.
jwka

Your router must be really poor. Most domestic routers - Netgear, Linksys, Apple et al can provide address reservation, where a given device MAC Address is always given the same fixed IP.

Dave

[Pollensa1946]

(2010-03-21 23:43)jwka Wrote:  Hi,

to keep my network (and that of people I consult) in a proper and predicable setup, I'd like to have fixed IP's for as many devices as possible. For most parts that I am using and recommending, this is possible (even for squeezeplayers, that play in the far cheaper massmarket segment).

Any way to set Klimax, Majik and the other DS's to a fixed IP? In the config, I have not found any way to do so. Overlooked it? Special parameter? Command line?

PLEASE: NO ANSWERS LIKE "set the DHCP server accordingly". That is a theoretical bullshit that works NOT with most private installations where "dumb" routers serve as DHCP servers giving only a range for DHCP and the same lease time for all DHCP's etc. etc..

To have really propper setups, one would like to segment the address room into ranges like 1 - 30 == dynamic, 40 - 50 == Servers, 51 - 60 == Controllers, 240 - 254 == Infrastructure etc. etc.

Being in the situation to remotely controll multiple installations, this makes good sense to be able to send ping etc..

Thx.
jwka

What brand of "dumb" router do you have that does not allow you to edit and fix IP addresses ?

[jwka]

@DaveWr, Pollensa1946:
Thanks for your most valuable replies, but as I wrote (expecting those answers): Please no answers like this - for good reasons.

Just to make sure you get the tone: Yes, even my dumb routers can do this. And, surprisingly enough, I am cabable to doing it also.

However, it is simply NOT what I want. Some obvious reasons (if you look a bit beyond your nose):

1.) Fixed IPs are the same even if you move the device from one network to the other helping it to better and faster find if the device is there, up and running or not (especially since the linn devices do NOT show their names or identity doing an IP scan, you might have to remember what MAC address start Linn has been assigned to what in fact is dependent on the interface card that they might also outsource).

2.) Trying out and setting up things up in one network and running on another (like I do setting up the things for a fair number of people out there).

3.) Touching a system where you might not be admin to a router? Ever seen such issues? No?

@rowlandhills:
This (no allowance for UPNP devices) would also mean you would not be allowed ANY PC, ANY NAS and anything else in the UPNP environment to be set up with a fixed IP - which for most servers (in a more professional environment at least) this will surely be the case. Can you direct me to that definition as I have read some materials about UPNP protocol and standard but was never stumbelling into that.

I am really interested in reading that it is really forbidden. I would guess it is a strong recommendation or even a MUST for devices to be able to support DHCP. Makes sense. This in turn does not mean it is prohibited not to offer the use of fixed IP, right?

Thx.
jwka

[NickP]

(2010-03-22 12:55)jwka Wrote:  Just to make sure you get the tone: Yes, even my dumb routers can do this. And, surprisingly enough, I am cabable to doing it also.

Tone understood & registered; I - and probably many others - will Make sure I never consider offering you any help... Hope this helps.

N

[rowlandhills]

jwka - take a look at the last couple of pages in the thread I linked to above for the definitive statements, links to UPnP specs etc. That's why I gave you that link!

[jwka]

@rowlandhills:
I read through. And I already knew this docs. But there is not "static IP is forbidden statement anywhere. It is like I said:

DHCP NEEDS TO BE SUPPORTED - but there is no word about fixed IP's to be prohibited:

"Each UPnP device which does not itself implement a DHCP server must have a Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP) client and search for a DHCP server when the device is first connected to the network (if the device itself implements a DHCP server, it may allocate itself an address from the pool that it controls). If a DHCP server is available, i.e., the network is managed, the device must use the IP address assigned to it. If no DHCP server is available, i.e., the network is unmanaged; the device must use automatic IP addressing (Auto-IP) to obtain an address."

I mean, if it is permitted to implement an own DHCP server ... that is FAR more problematic than allow a fixed IP.

And it says: IF a DHCP server is available. What, if not? Auto-Adress. Read carefully that section. Words like "implementation dependent". There is at least one back door.

The other: Implement a dhcp server that offers numbers from the static IP assigned to the same.

This is how such standards are circumvented all the times ...


Anyhow. Not my desicion. Just being customer. I guess I am not the only one that clearly sees some advantage in having fixed IPs. If Linn does not want to support those, it is very simlpe to state this (i.e. in the documentation) and also in advertisememt materials because you only detect this AFTER having bought.

At least for me, this is a reason to have a constant look for other vendors on the market.

Ahh and one other thing:
I think (hope) that this implementation guidelines will be re-written soon. The Overhead you produce with the broadcasts, the constant requests for DHCP servers etc. is low if you have only a few devices. Wait a few months and many other home automation devices will be there and IPv6 will be common. Then you have easily a few hundred devices (from fridge to lightbulb) having an IP and being a UPNP device. That will dramatically increase organisational traffic.

Ok. But that's behind the border of this discussion, of course.
Thx
jwka

[NeilB]

So, jwka, you envisage (accurately I believe) a day in which you have a few hundred IP devices in the average home, yet you'll religiously avoid using DHCP for fear of broadcast overheads and organisational traffic??

Changing a light bulb is going to be a whole load of fun in your home / office, not to mention those of your consulting clients, if you'll need to configure its IP settings manually.

[mouldyolddough]

(2010-03-22 12:55)jwka Wrote:  @DaveWr, Pollensa1946:
Thanks for your most valuable replies, but as I wrote (expecting those answers): Please no answers like this - for good reasons.

Just to make sure you get the tone: Yes, even my dumb routers can do this. And, surprisingly enough, I am cabable to doing it also.

However, it is simply NOT what I want. Some obvious reasons (if you look a bit beyond your nose):

1.) Fixed IPs are the same even if you move the device from one network to the other helping it to better and faster find if the device is there, up and running or not (especially since the linn devices do NOT show their names or identity doing an IP scan, you might have to remember what MAC address start Linn has been assigned to what in fact is dependent on the interface card that they might also outsource).

2.) Trying out and setting up things up in one network and running on another (like I do setting up the things for a fair number of people out there).

3.) Touching a system where you might not be admin to a router? Ever seen such issues? No?

@rowlandhills:
This (no allowance for UPNP devices) would also mean you would not be allowed ANY PC, ANY NAS and anything else in the UPNP environment to be set up with a fixed IP - which for most servers (in a more professional environment at least) this will surely be the case. Can you direct me to that definition as I have read some materials about UPNP protocol and standard but was never stumbelling into that.

I am really interested in reading that it is really forbidden. I would guess it is a strong recommendation or even a MUST for devices to be able to support DHCP. Makes sense. This in turn does not mean it is prohibited not to offer the use of fixed IP, right?

Thx.
jwka

You really do have a fantastic attitude and are fully deserving of whatever help comes your way.