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When is a Linn not a Linn........
2010-10-28, 17:53 (This post was last modified: 2010-10-28 22:06 by John@The Audio Warehouse.)
Post: #1
When is a Linn not a Linn........
After a rather exhausting day of services and upgrades to LP12's, thoughts crossed my mind on the viable or not so viable non linn components that keep cropping up from time to time. I have removed countless non Linn items off decks and some of them are downright trash.
Having said that, there are some great products out there to make the Linn sing. So, when is a Linn not a Linn....

Non Linn arm?? Non Linn plinth?? Non Linn PSU?? Non Linn armboards etc etc...

Will a Bentley still have the same residual value with Woolfrace wheels instead of the orginals.. I think you know where Im going with this so your thoughts?

[i][font=Times New Roman]Best Regards John[/font][/i]

The Audio Warehouse Limited
Specialising in turntable servicing/Repairs
www.theaudiowarehouse.co.uk
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2010-10-28, 18:09
Post: #2
RE: When is a Linn not a Linn........
I think non Linn arms and cartridges don't stop the deck being a Linn, after all if a Linn arm is required then the Majik is immediately out of the game.

Perhaps it is best to consider the "motor unit" (deck minus arm and cartridge) as the basic Linn component, then any change to power supply (Hercules, Heed, Naim etc), or plinth or subchassis stops it being a Linn.

Whether there is any disadvantage to having "non Linn" Linn (using my criteria), is another matter all together.......

black ash LP12 (pre circus), black Ittok LVII, Dynavector DV-20X,Plattamat, Heed orbit, Edwards Audio Apprentice, NVA P50 / A40's, Rega Ela MK1.
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2010-10-28, 21:03
Post: #3
RE: When is a Linn not a Linn........
I'd put a different perspective.

How about this:
Quote:Sondek components below the arm designed using the same methodology as Linn, tunedem, keeps the LP12 a Linn.

If you start using components that are not designed using tunedem, you will move further and further from what the LP12 does.

What d'ya think?

Pete
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2010-10-28, 21:13
Post: #4
RE: When is a Linn not a Linn........
(2010-10-28 21:03)petecallaghan Wrote:  I'd put a different perspective.

How about this:
Quote:Sondek components below the arm designed using the same methodology as Linn, tunedem, keeps the LP12 a Linn.

If you start using components that are not designed using tunedem, you will move further and further from what the LP12 does.

What d'ya think?

Interesting Pete and quite right however, there are some that claim to do just that but.......

[i][font=Times New Roman]Best Regards John[/font][/i]

The Audio Warehouse Limited
Specialising in turntable servicing/Repairs
www.theaudiowarehouse.co.uk
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2010-10-28, 21:34
Post: #5
RE: When is a Linn not a Linn........
Ok if tunedem or follow the tune was the guide where would that leave a product like the vector link that was made with that in mind????? (just a question to put the cat amounst the pidgeons)Smile comments??
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2010-10-28, 21:57
Post: #6
RE: When is a Linn not a Linn........
( Happy to not be cursed with this esoteric question as I am not sure it really serves me....)
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2010-10-28, 23:28
Post: #7
RE: When is a Linn not a Linn........
(2010-10-28 21:03)petecallaghan Wrote:  I'd put a different perspective.

How about this:
Quote:Sondek components below the arm designed using the same methodology as Linn, tunedem, keeps the LP12 a Linn.

If you start using components that are not designed using tunedem, you will move further and further from what the LP12 does.

What d'ya think?

Where is the quote from?

black ash LP12 (pre circus), black Ittok LVII, Dynavector DV-20X,Plattamat, Heed orbit, Edwards Audio Apprentice, NVA P50 / A40's, Rega Ela MK1.
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2010-10-28, 23:53
Post: #8
RE: When is a Linn not a Linn........
If a product is designed to work in harmony with and enhance an LP12s strengths then it's still an LP12 IMHO.

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2010-10-28, 23:58
Post: #9
RE: When is a Linn not a Linn........
Interesting thread idea...one that definitely requires a bit of thought.

Obviously you have to say that an LP12 is an LP12 regardless of the arm and cartridge on it. Why? Because the LP12 was an LP12 long before Linn ever made a cartridge or an arm. So that means that the LP12 is authentic regardless of what arm and cartridge you put on it (whether it sounds as good as it could with any particular arm/cartridge is another question altogetherWink).

When it gets to the table itself, parts from other sources become more questionable (in more ways than one as most of them really detract from the performance as John noted).

For the most part I would tend to say that putting non Linn parts in an LP12 will generally make it less of a true LP12 as it is no longer the same as what Linn designed it to be. It MIGHT still sound good as the designer MIGHT use the tune method for design and MIGHT get it right but it is still changing what Linn designed.

However, I can see what I feel is an exception and I think an argument can be made for another exception too. The exception I feel most comfortable with is a Chris Harban plinth. Why is this? Well, Linn make plinths for the LP12 out of a number of different hardwoods and have used others over time that are no longer made. I count at least eight different hardwoods Linn has used over time. This being the case the LP12 is obviously not tuned to a specific wood. Therefore a plinth made out of a solid hardwood, to the same dimensions and with at least the same quality of fit and finish would still keep the LP12 within its design parameters. I see it as similar to the example of putting a custom wheel on your Bentley - I don't think most would argue that that makes it less of a Bentley (although that argument carries less weight if some of the atrociously ugly or overly flashy wheels were usedSmile). The fact that a fair number of quality Linn dealers fit the CH plinths and find them at least competitive with Linn plinths in both musicality and construction quality, while offering some really beautiful choices of wood and grain pattern, is another indication of their credibility. Indeed, some dealers who are adamantly against non-Linn LP12 upgrades are still comfortable selling these plinths.

The other possible exception is the Armageddon. This is a bit more of a stretch as it is getting into the area of the motor/power supply combo. But it could be argued that the LP12 motor is the same and it is still being governed by the AC from the wall, just as it is in a Majik or Basik LP12. The Armageddon is just acting as a filtering or de-coupling device to deliver cleaner AC to the motor. In that way it is different to a Heed, Hercules, etc. that are actually generating the AC to drive the motor.

Once you get beyond these two I think you are getting into grey territory. Since my company, Nokturne Audio, has been appointed as the North American distributor for the RubiKon, people are probably surprised to see me take a relatively purist line on this. But just as John found, it has been my experience that the vast majority of non-Linn upgrades are questionable or worse. That doesn't mean there aren't exceptions and my expectation is that the RubiKon is one of them (I'll know for sure when I hear one - my sample is coming soon - but Peter, for one, seems impressed). Will the RubiKon make the LP12 less an LP12? I suppose technically it will make it a RubiKon/LP12 (which it will proudly declare on the armboard) but as long as it provides a performance that is substantially more tuneful than the steel subchassis/laminate armboard combo it is really a bit academic, isn't it?

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2010-10-29, 00:04
Post: #10
RE: When is a Linn not a Linn........
A well written post Tom. Only you can decide when you hear a RubiKon if it's true Linn or another path.

LP12/Maple/Cirkus/RubiKon/Radikal/ARO/ASAKA
PrefixK/DIY PSU
FlatNAC72/Dual PSU/NAP135s/Boogieing with Sara
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