Linn Forums

tormod · 2010-11-22, 20:56

(2010-11-22 19:00)grahamd Wrote: tormod.

Firewire is just a way of getting digital data from one place to another. The DS already has the ability to receive digital information through its ethernet port, so I don't really understand why you feel that changing one digital connection for another provides some kind of major leap forward. Why not have the software that sends the digital audio signal send it over ethernet? What's the difference? (Apart from having another product polluting the world for no reason)

Graham

graham,

If you can send the unprocessed file from iTunes over the network it will work like the DS to day is working exchanging the media server, no difference except for that the user interface will be iTunes, this is one possibility.

This is a solution that I can live with, but why should I pay for all the unnecessary function and possibilities inside a network DS, I think most of your customer have no need for the networking part, their music limited to one location only.

Why not make several different units for different functions; you are making 4 units to day with different sound quality.

Seven to eight years ago I do understand your chose of setup, if you was to start developing the DS to day I am sure that another route will be chosen.

Tormod

grahamd · 2010-11-22, 22:03

(2010-11-22 20:56)tormod Wrote: If you can send the unprocessed file from iTunes over the network it will work like the DS to day is working exchanging the media server, no difference except for that the user interface will be iTunes, this is one possibility.

I don't believe this is possible because iTunes is not really a control point in any seriously meaningful sense. It's more like a media player, like Windows Media Player, or Winamp, etc (combined with all sorts of other functions as well).

(2010-11-22 20:56)tormod Wrote: This is a solution that I can live with, but why should I pay for all the unnecessary function and possibilities inside a network DS, I think most of your customer have no need for the networking part, their music limited to one location only.

Why do you care whether you connect your mac to your DS with a ethernet cable rather than a firewire cable. What difference does it make?

(2010-11-22 20:56)tormod Wrote: Why not make several different units for different functions; you are making 4 units to day with different sound quality.

There is a good reason to make products with different levels of quality.
And the fact that most products exist at a number of different quality levels means that we should be more careful about introducing different products, not less.

(2010-11-22 20:56)tormod Wrote: Seven to eight years ago I do understand your chose of setup, if you was to start developing the DS to day I am sure that another route will be chosen.

I don't think so. As far as I am concerned, the past 5 - 10 years have provided a strong vindication of our approach. You can hardly buy an electric toaster without it containing some kind of media server these days. Smile

Graham

tormod · 2010-11-22, 22:19

(2010-11-22 19:39)MnM Wrote:
(2010-11-21 18:15)tormod Wrote: My MAC is a dedicated server with 256GB SSD drive, and 8 GB ram. Amarra takes the whole file in to ram before it is sent to the firewire output.

Tormod,

I thought you might be using spdif or toss because, from that spec, it looked like you were using the mac as an audio device (assuming the SSD and large ram are an attempted audio tweak). But you use firewire. So now I'm thinking that although the Weiss uses a firewire interface, perhaps in your system the mac runs the master clock?

I would normally assume that the Weiss has a buffer and pulls data over firewire, and does its own clocking, but if that's the case, I can't see why you've got so much ram and an ssd in your mac.

Also, do you have any other storage beyond 256GB?

Matt

Matt,

Sonic Studio has given out a recommendation on how to build a music server, since I am using their software for the audio processing part I followed the recommendation except for the SSD.
They recommended a 30GB for OSX only, large SSD drives are costly, and I purchased a 256 GB to be able to have a big part of my library on the same drive. Reason is simply totally quiet and MTF numbers is also five times a normal drive. The MAC is always on, all sleep function disabled all background routines running in OSX is also disabled so is Internet.
The rest of my music is in a library on a firewire disk, bout this and the SSD is copied to a third disk as backup.
Apple is now out with a 500GB SSD drive this will replace my 256GB and all my music will be in one library.

Tormod

tormod · (This post was last modified: 2010-11-22 23:54 by tormod.)

(2010-11-22 22:03)grahamd Wrote:
(2010-11-22 20:56)tormod Wrote: If you can send the unprocessed file from iTunes over the network it will work like the DS to day is working exchanging the media server, no difference except for that the user interface will be iTunes, this is one possibility.

I don't believe this is possible because iTunes is not really a control point in any seriously meaningful sense. It's more like a media player, like Windows Media Player, or Winamp, etc (combined with all sorts of other functions as well).

(2010-11-22 20:56)tormod Wrote: This is a solution that I can live with, but why should I pay for all the unnecessary function and possibilities inside a network DS, I think most of your customer have no need for the networking part, their music limited to one location only.

Why do you care whether you connect your mac to your DS with a ethernet cable rather than a firewire cable. What difference does it make?

(2010-11-22 20:56)tormod Wrote: Why not make several different units for different functions; you are making 4 units to day with different sound quality.

There is a good reason to make products with different levels of quality.
And the fact that most products exist at a number of different quality levels means that we should be more careful about introducing different products, not less.

(2010-11-22 20:56)tormod Wrote: Seven to eight years ago I do understand your chose of setup, if you was to start developing the DS to day I am sure that another route will be chosen.

I don't think so. As far as I am concerned, the past 5 - 10 years have provided a strong vindication of our approach. You can hardly buy an electric toaster without it containing some kind of media server these days.

Graham

graham,

First your toaster statement, I purchased a new alarm clock yesterday, it just need a battery and it pick up the correct time and date, it also change to summer and winter time automatically, predict the weather and the best part it is wireless and cost £14.

We now live in wireless environment, I hate cables less is better, why would I have a wired network only to play my music, I know your arguments, do not explain them. But I also know a much simpler way that work just as well, but difficult 8 years ago when the DS was made.
Therefore my saying, a DS to day would be a different design, not only because of better but after all complains from owners.

If Linn for one second thinks that they have chosen a platform 8 years ago that still is the best even today than you was a genius.

If you are not listening to your customers and follow the trend in the marked you will for sure end up with a product for the few.

It is systems in the marked to day just as good as Linn sound wise, and more is coming, you can’t compete by being special and user unfriendly, user-friendly and best is the keyword.

In regard to iTunes I think you need to do your research once more, what I am willing to bet with you is that within 5 years every high end producer in the would will be out with a device changing the digital ones and zero to music from a MAC and iTunes in high resolution.
Likely the music is sent from iTunes wireless to a new super fast Airport Express, one in each room where you have a music system, it will also be able to send to all or a few at the same time.
You will also be able to access the same library for all the users.
Do you think for a minute that you will be able to compete with Apple when they see an upside in doing this?
In few years to come the youngsters will not say; have you listen to that song, they will say, have you Ituned that song.
I have seen different statement in this forum about MAC users are only 6% of the total marked the rest is Windows.
Make the poll different among the people using their computer for music, how many is using iTunes and how many is using Media Player in Windows.
And the winner is:

I rest my case, this is a wall I will not be able to go through, but you will in your own phase, I hope.

Tormod

MnM · 2010-11-23, 00:24

(2010-11-22 19:39)MnM Wrote:
(2010-11-21 18:15)tormod Wrote: My MAC is a dedicated server with 256GB SSD drive, and 8 GB ram. Amarra takes the whole file in to ram before it is sent to the firewire output.

...perhaps in your system the mac runs the master clock?

Tormod,

Still wondering where is the master clock in your system? Is it in the mac, or in the weiss?

linnrd · 2010-11-23, 00:46

MnM, if he's running Amarra as he claims he is doing, then the Mac is acting as a media player and I doubt that the Weiss is pulling the data. The clock is likely in the Mac which opens up another can entirely.

grahamd · 2010-11-23, 00:52

tormod,

Fair enough, I think I understand where you are coming from.

Graham

tormod · (This post was last modified: 2010-11-23 17:04 by tormod.)

(2010-11-23 00:24)MnM Wrote:
(2010-11-22 19:39)MnM Wrote:
(2010-11-21 18:15)tormod Wrote: My MAC is a dedicated server with 256GB SSD drive, and 8 GB ram. Amarra takes the whole file in to ram before it is sent to the firewire output.

...perhaps in your system the mac runs the master clock?

Tormod,

Still wondering where is the master clock in your system? Is it in the mac, or in the weiss?

MnM

As you can read the Weiss have an internal clock too, what you define as a master clock (that I think is Linn stuff) in terms of my system I do not know, nor care.
The Weiss DAC, encompassing custom hardware and software geared for the highest fidelity audio playback possible, along with its own clock source to eliminate jitter over Firewire's Asynchronous communication method.
Amarra was design with Weiss and their own DACs, how they made it so good I do not know.
I can only say that Firewire is superior for music transport to USB, USB's overhead is reliant on the CPU of the computer, Firewire is its own manager, the entire overhead is on the device itself.
A digital input is equal to another digital input and I should not care graham wrote; they are of cause all different in what they can do. There is a lot of stuff on the Internet about this to.

Tormod