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Major change in the music industry
2011-02-05, 21:07
Post: #41
RE: Major change in the music industry
(2011-02-05 16:24)JohnC Wrote:  Hi,

Well much as I agree with some of the posts on here I think a simple point has been overlooked.

Today the people that buy music players in the main want something simple and in one box. The mobile phone is very quickly becoming the calendar, notebook, camera, music player, internet access point and, oh yes, a phone! (Oh and I forgot, my new phone also has Sat-Nav)!

The other fact people seem to overlook is that people want music on the move, why have a HiFi in a house when they can keep in touch with their friends while walking, driving, having dinner, going to the pub and have music as well. Need I go on?

The market whatever the posts on here say for high quality music is just not there for the average person in the street. They could not care what it sounds like as long as it plays music and they can get it easily. Do you really think people will pay for higher quality downloads when simple MP3 files fit the bill, I think not.

The HiFi market is shrinking for all but a few, the market does not really serve the beginner. Look at the posts on here and other forums where people are looking for second hand equipment because they cannot buy new as it is so expensive.

So the market for high quality music will remain as it always was for those in a minority.

As for Apple, the big guns are out to overtake them in all their areas of products, phones, tablets, internet access points and music players. Their time is coming, you might still be able to buy iTunes, but my guess is that a great majority will be playing on products that are not made by Apple.

My two pence worth, I will retreat and keep my head down for the flac, or should that be MP3's Big Grin

Cheers

John

John, I'm not Lord Job's biggest acolyte though I do have an iPod.

Thing is when you talk about the 'big guns aiming for Apple' well you're way off target here I'm afraid.

The iPod has no competition. The iPad has no competition yet. Android phones have apparently overtaken Nokia and iPhones - but sales of the iPhone are such that Apple is still walking all the way to the bank - and that many still see it as the more desirable device.

And if your average audiences only care about MP3s, then Airplay is going to nail it like there's no tomorrow. Airplay on 3rd party devices is going to become as ubiquitous as iTunes.

The truth is that the 'big guns' really only have small guns with smaller targets - they've got their work cut out.
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2011-02-05, 21:24
Post: #42
RE: Major change in the music industry
(2011-02-05 20:33)hcl Wrote:  Maybe I'm ignorant, but I think most people actually are quality focused if aware there are quality differences. If given the choise people would buy FLAC, even high-res if it were available and not that more expensive than MP3:s. I think so even if they realised it would not make much difference on there current music listening gear, but just knowing that buying better equipment could exploit the differences would be enough argument, me think.

Another thing is that most equipment are seriously insufficient for reproducing anything resembling the sound and feeling of a live performance. MP3 can never do that. For that it is clearly too limited. The fact is, people are actually ripped off from the major part of the music experience. When informed of this fact people will act with there wallets. To this day, the information in this direction are just about zero.

CD where marketed as the superior format over vinyl and MC:s, but the claims where somewhat flawed and people realised that. Not immediately, but the effect is obvious; people changed the way they consumed music - from qualitative to quantitative. The industry did not listen and have not recovered from the defeat. At the same time music video:s where introduced shifting the focus of the music experience from audible to a visual experience. The difference between prtable and stationary experience where diminnished by the fact that CD where not that good - stationary or portable - did not do much difference.

However, I am not that pessimistic as most of you are. I think it is possible to open up peoples ears and one way is the fact that more artist are touring and giving conserts, showing people what music actually is all about. A re-take of the happenng of the 50:s and 60:s. It is sad though that we have to live through the dark ages of recorded compressed music.

I really disagree when you say if people had the choice they'd choose FLAC.

Take a site like 7Digital which hosts a huge library of popular music. They at one time were offering FLAC but even sooner took it off. It's up to the listener to demand high-quality audio - and from what I see it's not there.

I've just wasted around 4 pounds at 7Digital downloading some 320k China Crisis tracks. Cos they sound a bit dull and now have to purchase the CD at Amazon and wait weeks.

Majors will spend billions on marketing trash like Britney Spears, but will not spend a fraction on that marketing a good audio format.

EMI is dead. And the way I see it, that apart from music for a limited audience like Linn Records, or for a slightly wider audience at HD Tracks, high quality audio is in great danger of becoming extinct.

I mean if not even Mrs Paul McCartney, Ringo Starr and Yoko Ono have the common sense to enable high-quality downloads of Beatles, then what hope is there?

Talking of Ono, her remix of Double Fantasy does not do it for me. Yes it's very fashionable to strip everything down musically but I loved Woman in its original mix - echoes, reverbs and all, and I don't care for any remix dammit.
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2011-02-05, 21:47
Post: #43
RE: Major change in the music industry
For me on the whole ordering CDs from Amazon where they turn up pretty much straight away and can rip into multiple formats with dbpoweramp is not that much of a hassle and is much better than the situation re DVDs/ebooks where DRM still a real issue in terms of being able to use on multiple devices (on ebooks am using Amazon for ease of purchase and can read on Kindle/iPad/iPhone apps but don't like fact that don't physically have control of content myself).

So whilst you can't (on the whole) download hi quality music it is very readily available on CD without DRM problems etc and you get a free backup disc! I use iTunes a bit to buy stuff but only for the odd song rather than albums.

I know some people think ALAC not as good as FLAC but I am moving towards this being my sole library managed by iTunes which can sync with iPod/iPhone/iPad (compressing on way if you want) + you can point Sonos/DS at same library so everything is integrated/simple which is what a lot of people (like me - most time I have to listen to music tends to be on train etc) want.

I do think more people (not the majority but not a tiny minority) will invest in high quality kit if it is simple to use (Sneaky as an entry point is not that much more expensive than Sonos but is not as straight forward/control although improving is not as good as yet and I think if Linn cracks this aspect then more people beyond enthusiasts will be convinced).
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2011-02-05, 21:49
Post: #44
RE: Major change in the music industry
(2011-02-05 20:24)stunta Wrote:  I am in my early 30s so there is still hope, Bill Smile I even have a turntable with tube pre and amp!

But you are right. When I go to events at my dealer's I find that almost everyone looks older than me.

Every now and then a friend or colleague comes to me asking for advice on audio systems. It is almost always for home theater and on the rare occasion that it is for stereo, they tell me their budget is $400 or so. But they spend thousands on a giant TV and are willing to spend $800 or so if the system is Bose.

It is a lonely world of audio I live in but sometimes it makes me feel special Smile

I have the same kind of friends as you Stunta. A few weeks ago, a mate said to me, 'You know about Hi-Fi, Bill. Can you come to Curry's with me as I am going to get myself a new Hi-Fi?'. They still insist I come along even after I try to tell them that Curry's don't sell proper Hi-Fi.

AkurateDS + 2250 + Keilidhs = Deep Joy.
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2011-02-05, 21:50
Post: #45
RE: Major change in the music industry
(2011-02-05 21:47)majik Wrote:  For me on the whole ordering CDs from Amazon where they turn up pretty much straight away and can rip into multiple formats with dbpoweramp is not that much of a hassle and is much better than the situation re DVDs/ebooks where DRM still a real issue in terms of being able to use on multiple devices (on ebooks am using Amazon for ease of purchase and can read on Kindle/iPad/iPhone apps but don't like fact that don't physically have control of content myself).

So whilst you can't (on the whole) download hi quality music it is very readily available on CD without DRM problems etc and you get a free backup disc! I use iTunes a bit to buy stuff but only for the odd song rather than albums.

I know some people think ALAC not as good as FLAC but I am moving towards this being my sole library managed by iTunes which can sync with iPod/iPhone/iPad (compressing on way if you want) + you can point Sonos/DS at same library so everything is integrated/simple which is what a lot of people (like me - most time I have to listen to music tends to be on train etc) want.

I do think more people (not the majority but not a tiny minority) will invest in high quality kit if it is simple to use (Sneaky as an entry point is not that much more expensive than Sonos but is not as straight forward/control although improving is not as good as yet and I think if Linn cracks this aspect then more people beyond enthusiasts will be convinced).

This is not apparent in my post, but I reside in SA - so ordering from Amazon from me is sometimes a necessity, and therefore a pain in the arse, as unlike UK and US - no same day delivery for me.

Can you now understand my pain?
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2011-02-05, 21:52
Post: #46
RE: Major change in the music industry
yes!!!
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2011-02-06, 01:02 (This post was last modified: 2011-02-06 01:03 by duchamp.)
Post: #47
RE: Major change in the music industry
Question: Why didn't Linn introduce a DS player ten years ago? The technology was ready!
I can't think of one other reason than storage capacity! In 2001 a PowerMac G4 would have 40, 60 or 80 GB of hard disk space. It was at that time compressed music like mp3's really got popular and the iPod introduced.

Question: why does Apple not sell uncompressed music? Because Apple has turned into a mobil device company. An iPhone only holds 32 GB of storage, which is far to less for storing uncompressed music. When storage capacity for a mobile device has exceeded 256 GB I think Apple will introduce uncompressed music. Unfortunately I think it will take a couple of years from now!

The business strategy for a company like Apple is not hard to follow. The business strategy of the record companies is a different story.
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2011-02-06, 05:17 (This post was last modified: 2011-02-06 05:17 by thedevilsbuilder.)
Post: #48
RE: Major change in the music industry
One from leftfield.

What if global CD production stopped tomorrow? About 0.5% of my music is from downloads (mostly Linn) so the rest has to come from ripping cd's. If I had to download mp3's to get the music I wanted, there would be no point in having a decent Hi Fi.
Maybe more hi fi companies need to get involved in offering lossless downloads to save real hi fi going the way of the dodo.

Paul

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2011-02-06, 09:08
Post: #49
RE: Major change in the music industry
(2011-02-06 01:02)duchamp Wrote:  Question: Why didn't Linn introduce a DS player ten years ago? The technology was ready!
I can't think of one other reason than storage capacity! In 2001 a PowerMac G4 would have 40, 60 or 80 GB of hard disk space. It was at that time compressed music like mp3's really got popular and the iPod introduced.

Question: why does Apple not sell uncompressed music? Because Apple has turned into a mobil device company. An iPhone only holds 32 GB of storage, which is far to less for storing uncompressed music. When storage capacity for a mobile device has exceeded 256 GB I think Apple will introduce uncompressed music. Unfortunately I think it will take a couple of years from now!

The business strategy for a company like Apple is not hard to follow. The business strategy of the record companies is a different story.


For a while now lossless files in iTunes can be compressed as they are transferred to iPod so not sure this is the reason (128 only choice though)
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2011-02-06, 10:12
Post: #50
RE: Major change in the music industry
(2011-02-04 11:45)Warren Wrote:  Yes we are more visual than auditory creatures, however, I think the reason why most people can't tell the difference is because most people haven't learned the difference.

We are born unable to see, stand, walk and talk. It takes days before we learn to focus our eyes. Equally all that we can do in terms of appreciating great music and great hifi, being able to tune-dem or active-listen are all skills that we have learned.
I have a totally different view.
The baby can hear months before the birth. It can actually recognize the mother&fathers voice.
Even quite late (up to 10years age or so) the visual abilities are not as good as a grown up; ability to determine distance, speed, spatial.
This together with not fully developed ability to manage simultaneous inputs and overall body coordination, makes riding a bike in the city centre a challenge for even a 10y.

BUT - the hearing is VERY developed since the "start", well even earlier than that.

This brings us back to ability to perform tune dem.
My experiece is that all humans actually judge music just like that as an instinct. The kids then grow up and start thinking (what about the bass, dynamics etc)...connect the brain and LOSE the instinct.

THEN we have to "unlearn" to be able to evaluate using tune dem. Basically it’s not about “learning tune dem”, it’s about STOP using the brain and start feeling.

Ever wondered why on earth a small baby is scared like crazy if the baby hears a tiger? By instinct the baby feels the danger!
That instinct is also used evaluating music. Linn calls it tune dem, but they didn’t invent the way the human ear&brain evaluate sound (i.e music)

See you @ http://www.lejonklou.com/forum
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