Linn Forums

Current time: 2018-07-21, 06:51 Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Linn Forums / Linn Music Systems & Hi-fi Separates / Turntables & Record Players: Linn Sondek LP12 v / LP12 Set-up - a brief overview.

Post Reply 
LP12 Set-up - a brief overview.
2017-09-22, 13:48
Post: #321
RE: LP12 Set-up - a brief overview.
(2017-09-21 17:47)The Flatearther Wrote:  May I humbly suggest diluting the alcohol with distilled water as a safety measure.

Yes you can and as I said; care is needed/great care is advised with the handing ..... and please remove the fluid quickly once applied or potentially you could run into the situation Flatpopely mentions. - So many things can/will leave marks on the platters as we have all seen.

KR

Peter

Fettling LP12s since 1980 and member here since 2008
Tel 0333 200 4475
Email - peter@cymbiosis.com
Skype - peteratcymbiosis
Facebook - www.facebook.com/Cymbiosisaudio/
www.cymbiosis.com
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-09-24, 16:47
Post: #322
RE: LP12 Set-up - a brief overview.
Thanks, Peter. Used pure ipa, worked fine.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2018-01-05, 01:28
Post: #323
RE: LP12 Set-up - a brief overview.
(2011-02-06 16:30)Cymbiosis Wrote:  
(2011-02-06 16:03)eye-fi Wrote:  It seems bending the top plate to try to erase these errors can only make it worse as it may not (& Likely not) be the top plate.

Well, this is exactly the point. There is a knack to it yes, but mainly it's care and experience involved in what to do. Once one starts to see what's involved with LP12 set-up, people may become even more convinced that a visit to their dealer is their best course of action. Equally those who feel it is within their capability and cant visit, or find it very difficult to visit, their dealer, now have some advice in what is important in the set-up procedure. I've said many times, its not rocket science, just care and attention to detail. Experience, patience and enough time to set-up properly.

So much is made of getting the bounce right. However, this is just one of many important things to get right when getting the very best out of an LP12.

I regularly have people saying LP12s go out of tune easily - Nope, not if set-up is done properly.

I have had in the past people come to me having had LP12s in the past and moved onto other decks, often costing more than the LP12 saying the LP12 was not as good. My immediate offer is always: Please bring along your deck if you wish, for a comparative demo! On every occasion where this has happened (as far as I can remember) the LP12 has sounded better than what they have moved onto! In all occasions that I can think of, these owners now have an LP12 again!Cool

KR

Peter
I have had many lp12 decks and think they all sound lovely if you follow the rules.. One of the main ones being a stiff stable support which many people seem to miss.. these days for convinience and less hassle I use my basik mk1 with a newish Akito b2 sounds lovely.. musical etc without to much of the setting that I have done in the past many times since the 80's on sondeks.. These days there are so many differing ways to build a turntable.. Even magnetic arms etc.. The designs are mind blowing and very expensive.. Who would of thought such an old idea would last so long..Smile
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2018-01-05, 08:14 (This post was last modified: 2018-01-05 08:15 by smokestack.)
Post: #324
RE: LP12 Set-up - a brief overview.
Ditto all of the above from Peter & 4ohm.
Even the oldest & most modestly equipped LP12 will sound wonderfully musical & enjoyable so long as its parts are in good condition & its correctly set up.

The sad irony is that so many upgrades are driven by the dissatisfaction of folks with decks, at all levels of spec, which aren't set up properly
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2018-01-05, 19:57
Post: #325
RE: LP12 Set-up - a brief overview.
(2018-01-05 08:14)smokestack Wrote:  Ditto all of the above from Peter & 4ohm.
Even the oldest & most modestly equipped LP12 will sound wonderfully musical & enjoyable so long as its parts are in good condition & its correctly set up.

The sad irony is that so many upgrades are driven by the dissatisfaction of folks with decks, at all levels of spec, which aren't set up properly

Never a truer word!

Loricraft Garrard 401/Collinson/12"Bokrand-Ortofon/EMT TSD15 VdH.
LP12 Wakonda/Black Ittok/Metak,
'75 Red Button LP12/Grace G707/Supex900Super.
'73 Red Rocker LP12/SME3009/Shure V15/II.
'73 Twin-Button LP12/Grace G707/Supex900Super.
'71 Castle Ariston RD11/SME3009/Ortofon MC10.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2018-01-06, 08:10 (This post was last modified: 2018-01-06 08:11 by Glyn Ruck.)
Post: #326
RE: LP12 Set-up - a brief overview.
(2018-01-05 19:57)Hamstall Wrote:  
(2018-01-05 08:14)smokestack Wrote:  Ditto all of the above from Peter & 4ohm.
Even the oldest & most modestly equipped LP12 will sound wonderfully musical & enjoyable so long as its parts are in good condition & its correctly set up.

The sad irony is that so many upgrades are driven by the dissatisfaction of folks with decks, at all levels of spec, which aren't set up properly

Never a truer word!

+1^ Wink
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2018-01-06, 12:06
Post: #327
RE: LP12 Set-up - a brief overview.
People will spend hundreds of £'s on products, sometimes they have never even heard. Then have to say how great the "difference" it made. Yet baulk on £2-300 for a proper setting up of their LP12.

In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder, bloodshed. They produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, five hundred years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2018-01-06, 15:05 (This post was last modified: 2018-01-06 15:10 by Peer Gynt.)
Post: #328
RE: LP12 Set-up - a brief overview.
I get a kick out of the usual description of the effect of upgrades.

Tighter bass. Better focus. More air. I heard things I’ve never heard before.

Psychoacoustics are always in play.

Still, no matter where your system stands on the upgrade path, it seems like it is nearly always possible to make improvements. I think this is because live music is difficult to reproduce. And wherever our system stands, our brain fills in what’s missing.

Some guys say that the best system they ever heard was in their college dorm room.

Certainly money or time spent on proper set up is money or time well spent. You folks in the UK have it easy in this regard. We in the US are often 500 to 1500 km away from a competent Linn specialist.

I’m 800+ away myself. The level of support available outside the UK is generally quite limited.

It’s about the music, not the gear. Just listen - or not.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2018-01-14, 18:53
Post: #329
RE: LP12 Set-up - a brief overview.
(2011-02-06 15:06)Cymbiosis Wrote:  I am starting this thread in response to a growing number of requests from owners who perhaps live a long way from their Linn Specialist Turntable Retailer and require a set-up of their LP12. This is merely a guide, and in my opinion you are obviously far better seeing your dealer for any work that you require. It follows that I or any other participating members do not accept any liability whatsoever for works attempted following your reading of any information contained here. As I said, hopefully you will see this as a general guide and you will hopefully gain a better understanding of the setting up process and consequently a better idea of why retailers need to charge a little for the time and expertise they spend on setting up your LP12, and also why they are the best people to set-up and get the best sounds from your LP12. Care, experience, expertise and attention to detail are paramount.

Within this guide, please feel free to post questions and offer additional advice wherever you like. All I would say is let’s try and keep it to the point and as on topic as possible if we can, as this will make it more readable for anyone interested in using the thread for reference in future. It’s not going to be completely all encompassing, so if be very happy if any of you wish to chip in and raise points as we go along.

Kind regards,

Peter Swain

With any process or call it a journey if you like, one needs to start somewhere and I think the best way would be from the ground up and at component level, so you can pick up the relevant information at whatever point you wish. I also think pictures are often far more useful than just the written word in conveying the salient points.
So, let’s start with the plinth and what’s important when checking the top plate when fitted:

Plinths come in various finishes as we know and older ones lack the corner-braces. These stiffen up the plinth, help to minimise warping and also corner-braced plinths sound better.

[Image: zeml.jpg]


There are two obvious differences between top-plates that you are probably aware of: The older non studded top-plate and the more recent top plate which has a stud welded to its motor corner. Why? Well, it’s of critical importance that the top plate in the motor corner does not rattle against the plinth as this has dire consequences for the sound quality. Often this is missed and so people are just unaware of the music they are missing out on as a consequence! The addition of the corner bolt makes life easier to ensure there are no corner rattles present. It does not IMHO make for a better sound than say a well fitted older non-studded top-plate.

Older non studded top-plates can have either imperial threads cut for the two motor speed adjustment (tilt) screws, or more likely the more modern M3 threads. How do you tell? Well normally the imperial ones are dull silver cross-heads, later M3 screws are black cross-heads and the modern ones used on the deck are bright silver posi-head. Additional to having imperial threads, very early top-plates can have these two threaded holes non – equi-distant from the motor pulley hole, thus giving dealers two problems to overcome if fitting a Radikal, as off-set holes would mean pulley to sensor bracket contact, and also any attempt to screw the M3 Radikal speed sensor screws in to secure the bracket will end in disaster as although they will start to thread up, very quickly the screws will seize up in the threads and will shear if forced!

[Image: y0lqe.jpg]


If there is just an imperial thread problem to overcome, then this can be overcome by carefully re-tapping the imperial thread out with an M3 tap. In engineering terms, not that great, but I’ve done more than a dozen now without any problem and the remaining new M3 thread is easily up to the job required of it.

If the speed adjustment screws are off-centre like in this picture above, I wouldn’t re-drill the holes. I’d pension off the top plate, save the hassle and use a new top plate as they are relatively low cost.

Top plate bolts. Silver pre-Nirvana ones and their non locking nuts should be discarded in favour of the far better newer black mushroom headed M5 bolts. Most are posi-head but in the last year or so they have become Allen head – This makes tightening them up with the M5 nylock nuts far easier.

When fitting any top-plate to a plinth, ensure the left edge is as straight as possible. Hold it up and look along the edge and ensure this is so. If not, correct it by careful bending. The stainless steel top is really quite soft and so it’s easy to overdo things, so check every step of the way – gently! If the top plate is raised at the centre where the two toplate screws and the two top plate bolts pull it down, then this is fine as it should pull flat once these are tightened.
Start the two top plate screws and tighten to within 1mm of the top plate, then what I do on a carpet with the motor side of the plinth wedged against my knees, is pull the top-plate (armboard end) towards me and hard against the plinth. Thus forcing the top-plate into the plinth as far as is possible and at the same time tightening the two top-plate screws. Beware overdoing this, as/or if the screws keep turning you should remedy this by initially changing the 6 x ½ Supa pan self tapping screws for 6 x ¾ Supa pan screws. Also beware slippage on the screw heads when tightening as if you do slip suddenly with the screwdriver it’s a big scratch you could end up putting in your top-plate!

For the cornerbolt/studded top plate one can now fit a mudguard washer and a M5 Nylock, and then start to “nip” it up whilst giving it the knuckle tap test on the top of the top-plate in the motor corner. It doesn’t want to be tightened up hard as the top-plate will deform and the deck would sound rubbish – just enough nipping on the nut to stop any rattling in that corner and no more.

For the non-studded top plate, one hope’s there are no rattles in that top corner. If there are, repeat the process until you get it right. Do not cheat by using adhesive in the corner as the deck will sound rubbish. Just top-plate tension is what you want to stop top plate rattles.
Areas on the top-plate rattling other than the motor corner are not particularly good news, and so you should attempt to minimise these wherever possible. For example if the area near the switch rattles, it looks and feels horrible, so it’s best to sort it out before you go any further.

Once you are happy with the top-plate and plinth union, proceed to the jig and gently clamp the plinth in to place ensuring the bottom edges are contacting the support surfaces. (Note. Older Afromosia decks may be smaller and so not supported properly by these surfaces! If so, just pull these plinths off-centre so that they can at least be supported by some of support surface and watch for slippage while tightening the clamps – I will take and post a picture of the next one I see, so as to explain this better). Once clamped level the plinth with a 15-30cm spirit level (not a small round one please) and check level on all four surfaces.
[Image: o1cu.jpg]



We are now ready to check that the spring bolts are hanging vertically.

Hardly brief, but abbreviated as compared, to what I could have written.

Comments please?

Ok then, returning to the point above about older fluted plinths sometimes being slightly smaller and being difficult to clamp in the jig I took a couple of pictures earlier this week to show you the problem and how I overcome it. Yes, if the jig's plinths supports were a little wider we would not have an issue, but just pulling the plinth so as it sits in a diagonal fashion rather than square in the jig works pretty well. Once clamped in place, please re-adjust the jig so as the four sides of the pinth are once again level.

Here is a small Afro plinth and as you can see - I hope! The lower plinth support on the jig isn't in contact with the flat edge of the plinth and so as you try and tighten the clamps they will start to ride up the bevelled edge of the lower part of the plinth:

[Image: p11005111.jpg]

By just shifting the plinth over to a more diagonal position, one will at least let the plinth allow the support rails to do their job in part as you can see in the image below, and allow you to clamp up, where before you'd struggle! Not perfect, but workable. Just ensure the jig's feet are now adjusted so as the plinth is level again.

[Image: p11005121.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)