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Uncompressed FLAC
2012-09-03, 16:14 (This post was last modified: 2012-09-03 16:15 by Keith.)
Post: #41
RE: Uncompressed FLAC
MattC wrote

I actually have a better suggestion for what abl should do with George... Wink

I am told there are specialist websites for that sort of thing Tongue

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2012-09-03, 18:23
Post: #42
RE: Uncompressed FLAC
(2012-09-02 13:50)Keith Wrote:  I'm interested in having a listen to this. Can you name some tracks which you thought benefitted most from being un compressed and hopefully I will also have some of the same ones and can give a try.

Cheers

Surely if it is such an improvement "night & day" it should be noticable with any track.

Tom.
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2012-09-03, 23:26
Post: #43
RE: Uncompressed FLAC
A while ago, I did some tests with uncompressed FLAC versus compressed FLAC versus WAV.

In my setup, I had a slight preference for the level 8 (maximum) compressed FLAC between the FLAC files. So, the more compression, the better, I'd say.
But the difference between FLAC and WAV was much bigger and in favour of WAV.
I then converted the WAV files to FLAC and extracted the audio portion of all the FLAC pares (flac -d) and guess what: all flac -d couples had identical MD5 checksums, indicating that the audio portions were bit-identical.

So, my conclusions were:
1: the audible difference between FLAC and WAV has nothing to do with compression (then you would expect FLAC uncompressed to be superior over level 8 compressed FLAC, which, in my setup, proved wrong).
2: the audible difference between FLAC and WAV is not in the audio data that enters the buffer of the DS (which is identical).
3: there must be another explaination for the differences that people hear between file formats (no matter what preference). Preferences can be caused by setup, but the fact that there are differences requires an explaination. Is it the way the FLAC file is "build" and/or handled versus the way the WAV file is build/handled?

I do not want to rule out psychology, but I hear these differences always in the same way. When I tested uncompressed FLAC versus compressed FLAC, I fully expected the uncompressed FLAC to sound like WAV, but the opposite was the case. It was even slightly worse than the maximum compressed FLAC. This "proves" for me that my ears can be trusted to some extend and I am (at least not always Big Grin) fooled by my mind...

Time for a techie to come up with a logical explaination.

Paul

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2012-09-04, 21:28
Post: #44
RE: Uncompressed FLAC
I've been doing some listening to FLAC (in both compressed and uncompressed forms) and to WAV (as a file converted from FLAC by dbPoweramp). I've been comparing a single track in all these different formats, and I've been playing the music on both my KDS and my RDS.

I thought the best sound was produced by the WAV file converted by dbPoweramp. This has a slightly more natural and balanced sound than FLAC. I didn't notice any difference between compressed and uncompressed FLAC.
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2012-09-04, 22:11
Post: #45
RE: Uncompressed FLAC
(2012-09-04 21:28)simoncn Wrote:  I've been doing some listening to FLAC (in both compressed and uncompressed forms) and to WAV (as a file converted from FLAC by dbPoweramp). I've been comparing a single track in all these different formats, and I've been playing the music on both my KDS and my RDS.

I thought the best sound was produced by the WAV file converted by dbPoweramp. This has a slightly more natural and balanced sound than FLAC. I didn't notice any difference between compressed and uncompressed FLAC.

Hence my wish to be able to transcode FLAC to WAV in Minimserver.
That way, the superior tag features of FLAC and the superior SQ of WAV could be combined (assuming there are no SQ differences between transcoded and native WAV streaming; would have to test that though).

Paul

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2012-09-05, 06:59
Post: #46
RE: Uncompressed FLAC
(2012-09-04 22:11)konartel Wrote:  Hence my wish to be able to transcode FLAC to WAV in Minimserver.
That way, the superior tag features of FLAC and the superior SQ of WAV could be combined (assuming there are no SQ differences between transcoded and native WAV streaming; would have to test that though).

Paul

I'm thinking about how I could add support for FLAC to WAV transcoding in MinimServer. I'd like to do this in a way that also supports other transcoding options using an external converter such as FFmpeg or Libav.
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2012-09-05, 07:17
Post: #47
RE: Uncompressed FLAC
(2012-09-05 06:59)simoncn Wrote:  
(2012-09-04 22:11)konartel Wrote:  Hence my wish to be able to transcode FLAC to WAV in Minimserver.
That way, the superior tag features of FLAC and the superior SQ of WAV could be combined (assuming there are no SQ differences between transcoded and native WAV streaming; would have to test that though).

Paul

I'm thinking about how I could add support for FLAC to WAV transcoding in MinimServer. I'd like to do this in a way that also supports other transcoding options using an external converter such as FFmpeg or Libav.

Would be a major USP - fully behind this development!

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2012-09-05, 07:30
Post: #48
RE: Uncompressed FLAC
Or be able to pipe the stream into an external filter program?

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2012-09-05, 10:16
Post: #49
RE: Uncompressed FLAC
(2012-09-05 07:30)Rufus McDufus Wrote:  Or be able to pipe the stream into an external filter program?

Could you explain what kind of filtering you'd like to be able to do on the stream?
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2012-09-05, 10:30
Post: #50
RE: Uncompressed FLAC
(2012-09-05 06:59)simoncn Wrote:  I'm thinking about how I could add support for FLAC to WAV transcoding in MinimServer. I'd like to do this in a way that also supports other transcoding options using an external converter such as FFmpeg or Libav.

There are some issues with supporting transcoding for formats where the length of the transcoded stream isn't known until the entire stream is transcoded (e.g., VBR MP3 files). Also, I don't think there would be any sonic benefit in supporting WAV transcoding from lossy formats. For these reasons, I'll probably limit this feature to FLAC and ALAC files only (if there is a similar sonic improvement from ALAC transcoding). This should also allow me to package the transcoding support as part of the MinimServer distribution instead of relying on the user installing an external package.
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