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Tidal Goes Hi-Res with MQA
2017-01-06, 16:38
Post: #31
RE: Tidal now streaming Hi res....
(2017-01-06 12:21)FransZappa Wrote:  Okay, one last one:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_Q...henticated

MQA is lossy.
Please refrain from posting otherwise.

I will not because that is not the whole story.Tongue

To be clear, MQA encodes the data relevant to human hearing losslessly (and far more of it than has been thought necessary in the past). Other data not relevant to human audio discrimination are discarded by the MQA encapsulation in a lossy manner.

If you get very technical hires files are lossy too since they do not cover the entire hearing spectrum. DSD does that better.

Saying that MQA will not sound better than CD 16/44.1 because of what you read on wikipedia does not make sense.

I enjoy my hires music but can allso say some very well produced/mastered cd quality music sounds better, it all depends on the source. But when experts go on record saying that mqa sound very good and certainly better than cd quality I will not argue with them based on wikipedia information.
[/quote]

Ha ha ha, that's the funniest thing I've read in a while!

I get it now: MQA is "lossless" because it discards the bits we can't hear, so as far as our auditory sense is concerned, it's not loosing out on anything. Brilliant!!!

Apparently, it's based on loads of research based on auditory processing, so it must be true. Just like MP3 research: we can't detect what's being lost there either. That must make MP3 "lossless" too!

Priceless!!!

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2017-01-06, 17:07 (This post was last modified: 2017-01-06 17:19 by FransZappa.)
Post: #32
RE: Tidal now streaming Hi res....
(2017-01-06 16:38)spannko Wrote:  
(2017-01-06 12:21)FransZappa Wrote:  Okay, one last one:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_Q...henticated

MQA is lossy.
Please refrain from posting otherwise.

I will not because that is not the whole story.Tongue

To be clear, MQA encodes the data relevant to human hearing losslessly (and far more of it than has been thought necessary in the past). Other data not relevant to human audio discrimination are discarded by the MQA encapsulation in a lossy manner.

If you get very technical hires files are lossy too since they do not cover the entire hearing spectrum. DSD does that better.

Saying that MQA will not sound better than CD 16/44.1 because of what you read on wikipedia does not make sense.

I enjoy my hires music but can allso say some very well produced/mastered cd quality music sounds better, it all depends on the source. But when experts go on record saying that mqa sound very good and certainly better than cd quality I will not argue with them based on wikipedia information.

Ha ha ha, that's the funniest thing I've read in a while!

I get it now: MQA is "lossless" because it discards the bits we can't hear, so as far as our auditory sense is concerned, it's not loosing out on anything. Brilliant!!!

Apparently, it's based on loads of research based on auditory processing, so it must be true. Just like MP3 research: we can't detect what's being lost there either. That must make MP3 "lossless" too!

Priceless!!!
[/quote]

Concerning your MP3 remark. Read again: 'and far more of it than has been thought necessary in the past'

So how do you think 24/96 or 192 files work? With no cut off? Those files discard information just like you yourself. You always lose some information getting analogue sound into the digital domain. It depends on the choice of what you discard and why.
Mp3 makes bad choices. MQA probably makes better choices. Your choice is not to listen or read into the matter before posting your opinion. Why does that not make me laugh...

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2017-01-06, 17:21
Post: #33
RE: Tidal now streaming Hi res....
(2017-01-06 17:07)FransZappa Wrote:  
(2017-01-06 16:38)spannko Wrote:  
(2017-01-06 12:21)FransZappa Wrote:  Okay, one last one:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_Q...henticated

MQA is lossy.
Please refrain from posting otherwise.

I will not because that is not the whole story.Tongue

To be clear, MQA encodes the data relevant to human hearing losslessly (and far more of it than has been thought necessary in the past). Other data not relevant to human audio discrimination are discarded by the MQA encapsulation in a lossy manner.

If you get very technical hires files are lossy too since they do not cover the entire hearing spectrum. DSD does that better.

Saying that MQA will not sound better than CD 16/44.1 because of what you read on wikipedia does not make sense.

I enjoy my hires music but can allso say some very well produced/mastered cd quality music sounds better, it all depends on the source. But when experts go on record saying that mqa sound very good and certainly better than cd quality I will not argue with them based on wikipedia information.

Ha ha ha, that's the funniest thing I've read in a while!

I get it now: MQA is "lossless" because it discards the bits we can't hear, so as far as our auditory sense is concerned, it's not loosing out on anything. Brilliant!!!

Apparently, it's based on loads of research based on auditory processing, so it must be true. Just like MP3 research: we can't detect what's being lost there either. That must make MP3 "lossless" too!

Priceless!!!

So how do you think 24/96 or 192 files work? With no cut off? Those files discard information just like you yourself. You always lose some information getting analogue sound into the digital domain. It depends on the choice of what you discard and why.
Mp3 makes bad choices. MQA probably makes better choices. Your choice is not to listen before posting your opinion. Why does that not make me laugh...
[/quote]

Are you employed by Meridian?

I'm laughing at the marketing BS, not the sound. I've never heard it, but I certainly will, when the opportunity arises.

I've no objection to a truly transparent lossy format. But to describe a lossy format as being lossless because the bits thrown away are inaudible? Now, that really is laughable!

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2017-01-06, 17:27
Post: #34
RE: Tidal now streaming Hi res....
Tongue in cheek
Perhaps recordings are never as good as a live performance because they 'strip out' the alpha waves of the performance, which we can feel in a different way to mere sounds...
So who knows what else things outside normal hearing affect...
Tongue out of cheek

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2017-01-06, 17:33 (This post was last modified: 2017-01-06 17:34 by FransZappa.)
Post: #35
RE: Tidal now streaming Hi res....
Fresh from ces 2017:
•Tidal has begun streaming MQA content for all Tidal HiFi tier subscribers. An initial 200 albums are listed at Tidal.com/us/masters, with more expected in a collection that will "grow rapidly." Many of the titles are from the Warner Music Group catalog.
•Pandora and Rhapsody/Napster have announced hi-res streaming.
•15,000 hi-res albums are now available from major and indie labels.
•Technics will implement MQA into their Grand Class SU-G30 Network Player amplifier this spring.
•AudioQuest will implement MQA in their DragonFly Red and Black later this month via a free firmware download.
•Audirvana's Plus 3 music player for Mac OS will decode MQA when it's released this spring.
•Pioneer and Onkyo's digital audio players, and Onkyo's new hi-res smartphone, are equipped for MQA.
•The HiResAudio download store has expanded its MQA content with downloads from Warner.
•Mytek's new Mytek Clef headphone amplifier/DAC is MQA-enabled.
•NAD and Bluesound's Pulse Soundbar now supports MQA.
•Bel Canto, Brinkmann, MSB, and Aurender all have products that support MQA.
All this information became available on the first day of CES, when a consortium of industry professionals gathered by the Digital Entertainment Group (DEG)—and chaired by Marc Finer, President of the DEG (in the photo above)—spoke to assembled press and industry supporters at a Hi-Res Audio Press Conference. The group announced a new consumer awareness campaign called Stream the Studio, which is designed to increase awareness of hi-res audio amongst millennials.

The speakers, who included representatives from Universal Music Group, Warner, and Atlantic, were buoyed by research, based on a study of 7000 listeners, concluding that music lovers want sound quality as good as that heard in the recording studio. It is believed that premium music services could potentially attract 12 million subscribers.

Craig Kallman, CEO of Atlantic Records, scored a bullseye when he stated, "We are the only industry that has spent 30 years downgrading the sound quality of its product…Quality and convenience of delivery can now be in perfect harmony. We are ready to deliver. 2017 will be a watershed year like we haven't seen in 35 years. The day for high-resolution audio has finally come."

While David Chesky of HDTracks did not speak at the presentation, he was present. Indications are that new hi-res options that have been a year in the making will be forthcoming from HDTracks. In an email, Chesky hinted at "a super big surprise


Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/ces-2...uyGdj0v.99

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2017-01-06, 19:15
Post: #36
RE: Tidal now streaming Hi res....
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2017-01-06, 19:21 (This post was last modified: 2017-01-06 19:27 by FransZappa.)
Post: #37
RE: Tidal now streaming Hi res....
Quote:I've no objection to a truly transparent lossy format. But to describe a lossy format as being lossless because the bits thrown away are inaudible? Now, that really is laughable!

No, those are the bits being compressed.

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2017-01-06, 21:17
Post: #38
RE: Tidal now streaming Hi res....
MQA is lossy with respect to the original hi res PCM file. It takes the "on average most relevant" bits from the higher frequencies beyond CD bandwidth and overwrites the "on average least relevant bits" of the CD bandwidth with them.

MQA as a download format for music you buy makes absolutely no sense. It can only be inferior to the original high res file, and potentially includes DRM. Just buy the high res FLAC instead.

MQA as a streaming format can make sense if the data rate of the streaming link is limited and cannot support high res PCM/FLAC streaming. In this case, I can imagine that an MQAed high res stream can sound better than the original CD quality stream, just like a 256 kbit/s MP3 stream sounds better than a PCM/FLAC stream of the same data rate. DRM is not a big issue in streaming as long as you don't want to make a local copy of the stream (which few people probably do nowadays)

Should Linn support it? I wouldn't mind if they support it as an option for streaming, if the licensing conditions are OK for them.

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2017-01-06, 21:36
Post: #39
RE: Tidal now streaming Hi res....
(2017-01-06 21:17)Macallan Wrote:  MQA is lossy with respect to the original hi res PCM file. It takes the "on average most relevant" bits from the higher frequencies beyond CD bandwidth and overwrites the "on average least relevant bits" of the CD bandwidth with them.

MQA as a download format for music you buy makes absolutely no sense. It can only be inferior to the original high res file, and potentially includes DRM. Just buy the high res FLAC instead.

MQA as a streaming format can make sense if the data rate of the streaming link is limited and cannot support high res PCM/FLAC streaming. In this case, I can imagine that an MQAed high res stream can sound better than the original CD quality stream, just like a 256 kbit/s MP3 stream sounds better than a PCM/FLAC stream of the same data rate. DRM is not a big issue in streaming as long as you don't want to make a local copy of the stream (which few people probably do nowadays)

Should Linn support it? I wouldn't mind if they support it as an option for streaming, if the licensing conditions are OK for them.

+1
Tidal getting some real good publicity out of this.
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2017-01-06, 22:18
Post: #40
RE: Tidal Goes Hi-Res with MQA
I am getting the feeling we are losing out on all the new cool stuff: no Tidal Hi-Res, no Roon, no DSD.... Wake up Linn!
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