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2017 Network Setup Guide - recommended devices & Software
2017-02-06, 07:46 (This post was last modified: 2017-02-06 07:47 by Tin.)
Post: #11
RE: 2017 Network Setup Guide - recommended devices & Software
(2017-02-06 04:50)timingandimaging Wrote:  I get the point and I wouldn't buy a melco or a 1000$ cable - but still , wouldn't it be nice for beginners to have a guide for the right budget network components?

Users over lejonklou & jplay have experimented with switches and cables and have found differences - and they dont want to sell anything. Why neglect it and make fun of it?

They even experimented with the torque of the screws in the DS and found favourable settings. Even a Ferrari benefits from maintenance, the right tyres, and suspension setting...
Beginners shouldn't worry about it.

If people are worrying about the difference between a Netgear 105 and 108 they are successfully ignoring at least a dozen other electric devices in their house that are all affecting eachother. They cannot have tested the effect of having all brands of fridges and how they work with all brands and types of switches.
There are switches though that actually are being tested to work in difficult and hostile conditions like factories and I can assure you that the cheap and easily available netgear 108 isn't one of them. Yet they tested 'all' switches.
Are their mobile phones in your house? Do the neighbours have any? Forget about the difference between a Netgear 105 and 108 then.

You are adressing a hobby for tweakers who have decided that they want to be able to hear a difference with every component in their house, ignoring the fact that there are things happening they can't control.
A long time ago I studied astronomy and the radio telescopes I visited were able to pick up cars, mobile phones and transitor radios from a very long distance, and I can assure you the dishes were being pointed upwards but I never heard them about micromanaging network equipment and discussing the merits of a €35 commodity switch.

And sure, a Ferrari will benefit from better tires etc, but not when the engine is not in a Ferrari chassis.
I know your speakers are extremely good value and even objectively they do a very good job, but you could spend 5k on amps, speakers, interconnects and speaker cable and they'd still be holding back your streamer in a way even the best switch in the world wouldn't.

So no, beginners shouldn't worry about it.

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2017-02-06, 08:16
Post: #12
RE: 2017 Network Setup Guide - recommended devices & Software
(2017-02-06 04:50)timingandimaging Wrote:  I get the point and I wouldn't buy a melco or a 1000$ cable - but still , wouldn't it be nice for beginners to have a guide for the right budget network components?

Users over lejonklou & jplay have experimented with switches and cables and have found differences - and they dont want to sell anything. Why neglect it and make fun of it?

They even experimented with the torque of the screws in the DS and found favourable settings. Even a Ferrari benefits from maintenance, the right tyres, and suspension setting...

I think the point is there may be differences, but not necessarily improvements. So saying one thing is "better" than another is over stating it, and recommending particular components is like someone saying I like marmite so everyone must eat it Smile Favourable to one may not be so to another.
For example, I tried the Chord C-Streams and found I didn't like them, but liked the AQ Forests well enough. Others have nothing but praise for the c-streams. I have no idea why but I don't fret about it, nor will I go overboard. All I do know is that for some reason (shielding perhaps) it was an easy choice. Similarly the Jitterbug.
If you have the time, patience and inclination to want to be a hobbyist and tweaker all well and good. The fun is finding what's best for ones's self.

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2017-02-27, 05:39
Post: #13
RE: 2017 Network Setup Guide - recommended devices & Software
(2017-02-05 10:55)timingandimaging Wrote:  The netgear gs108 or gs108t is the very best cheap switch (no not gs105 or others, all tested) there are audiophile tweaked versions from ppa and aqvox available.

If you want to understand, from a switch stand point and have easy logging, of what is going on with your network then get the 't' variant o the Netgear. Also there is the Cisco SG200-8 that is another affordable layer 3 managed switch. You will be able to see actual transmission metrics with these including any errors. I use the Cisco SG200-8 personally.

AQVox is a rebadged DLink and they don't really demonstrate what modifications they have made to it. What they do mention (like jitter) is 100% BS.

(2017-02-05 10:55)timingandimaging Wrote:  The most important Ethernet cable is the one that goes into the Streamer. The top 3 budget Ethernet cables are 1. Supra cat8, 2. Chord c-stream, 3. AQ cinnamon
For everything else a cheap MicroConnect SSTP CAT6 WHITE LSZH SSTP603W is recommended.

I wouldn't waste any money on boutique Ethernet cabling. I ordered a WireWorld Starlight CAT8 12 footer and I made a 315 footer off a spool of Berk-Tek CAT5e.

I captured two tracks into my ADC and can make them available to you. Try and figure out where the $27.50/foot and $0.30/foot starts and stops. The odds are so stacked in favor of the WireWorld it isn't funny. But alas no one has been able to tell the difference.

Music is played out of buffer. Not off of Ethernet cabling. Ethernet sends a burst of data and then goes quite. The music your are hearing at any given point in time most likely was transferred 10-20 seconds before you are hearing it.

(2017-02-05 10:55)timingandimaging Wrote:  Asus and netgear routers seem popular. Some use the router as nas and disable the wifi part and use a separate wap instead.

Ubiquiti is a enterprise class lineup with more consumer level pricing. You can get a router from them sans any wireless and they also sell wireless access points.

(2017-02-05 10:55)timingandimaging Wrote:  The best storage is battery powered and 1. Cf card, 2. Sd Card, 3. Ssd, 4. HDD
I am not sure if that is only applicable to USB streaming yet.

I guess I could try a Rpi as Nas with wifi disabled, 512 gb SD card, into a gs108 switch + asus Router, all friwo powered.

The short answer is no. Get a NAS and affordable drives that give you the space you need for your collection with some room for growth. You can literally start playback, pull the network cable and audio will still play. So the question is: Did the sound quality improve when the cable was yanked and did it devolve when the cable was plugged back in.

(2017-02-05 10:55)timingandimaging Wrote:  My question would be if a audiophile switch would clear everything before and I could use a Nas-capable all in one router like Synology rt1900ac?

An audiophile switch is a misnomer. Texas Instruments white paper: Radiated Emissions and 10/100 LAN cabling talking expressly about a networks Achilles heal: Unbalanced power supplies.

If you are really worried you can get a $40 linear, regulated power supply for starts.

On the NAS side of things: How much redundancy do you need is a question to ask. I use a NetGear ReadyNAS that uses up to 4 drives in tandem and you can have a drive fail and still maintain uptime.

(2017-02-05 10:55)timingandimaging Wrote:  When Nas, Router and Streamer are connected to a switch, does the data from the Nas ever go through the router or will it go directly from the Nas to the Streamer?

Data gets 'switched' (most likely store and forward or possibly cut through) from NAS to Streamer. CAM table in the switch builds a layer 2 topology using the MAC (Media Access Control) Addresses of the Streamer and NAS and connects them directly.

(2017-02-05 10:55)timingandimaging Wrote:  Could I use a rpi 3 as nas?

You could but a purpose built device like Synology, Qnap, ReadyNAS will be easier to setup and offer a good amount of features.
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2017-02-27, 08:28 (This post was last modified: 2017-02-27 08:39 by Wat.)
Post: #14
RE: 2017 Network Setup Guide - recommended devices & Software
(2017-02-05 20:45)vicdiaz Wrote:  Oh Lord, here we go again. Spend your time listening to music and not on fancy cables and switches.

Agree 100%

Melco & fancy cables are best avoided IMO. You just need a basic network.I very much doubt most Linn or Naim users put Linear PSUs on network switches: some eccentics on fora possibly do. I put Minimserver on my Mac Mini connected to HP switch on my very basic network and my MDSM played music. Sounds great. There are plenty of other network servers & switches that would work just as well such as Vortexbox & TP Link. I personaly don't like Synology because of very poor service I received, but others may have had better experience.

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2017-09-16, 09:54
Post: #15
RE: 2017 Network Setup Guide - recommended devices & Software
Sorry I'm late to this conversation.

Apart from the aforementioned AQVOX switch, I just discovered Buffalo (Melco's parent co) also makes an audio-grade switch (BS-GS2016/A) at a similar price-point. It's currently only available in Japan but can be shipped anywhere via Amazon JP.
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2017-09-20, 00:34 (This post was last modified: 2017-09-20 05:17 by Wat.)
Post: #16
RE: 2017 Network Setup Guide - recommended devices & Software
There isn't a best way. My preferred way is below. I'm sure others will have different ideas.

No need for Melco. Laptop or Mac Mini running J River Media Centre works well & lets you rip CDs, edit metadata & more. It works perfectly as DLNA server for Linn DS. I keep my music on an external disk (WD Duo in my case, but most quiet HDDs or SSDs work equally well). This combo makes a good music server IME: better than Synology NAS I used to use. As far as I know Raspbery Pi isn't powerful enough to run full blown J River MC, but there are other software packages.

I don't use LPSU to power my switch as it makes no difference IME, NetGear switches are fine, though I use HP. Ethernet cables between DS & switch and music server & switch are important. If you unplug either music stops when DS's buffer is empty. I bought Supra Ethernet cables because I liked the look of them, but they were expensive at £7 per metre: any decent Cat 5e or better should be fine.

I use my ISP router (D-Link) With Apple Airport Extreme as Wireless Access Point. Other than DHCP to allocate an IP adress & associated parameters to my DS & music server, the router is irrelevant. I do not use any subscription music services.

I've no idea of what the standard for an audiophile switch is. My guess is ones sold as audio grade are boutique offerings & you're better off with a standard consumer switch using its supplied PS. If music server (NAS), router & streamer connect to the same switch then data go directly from music server to streamer without passing through the router. A router routes data between networks, such as your home network & Internet: if both music server & streamer are on the same network (e.g. same switch) then no router is necessary. (assuming no VLANs, which is usually the case for a home network).

Not sure this answers your questions, but I'd avoid boutique cables, routers, switches, power suplies & NASs (Melco) as I prefer to spend the cash on music. My Linn DS doesn't seem to care how it gets the music stream as long as all the bits are there.

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2017-09-20, 00:47
Post: #17
RE: 2017 Network Setup Guide - recommended devices & Software
(2017-09-16 09:54)LINN1989 Wrote:  Sorry I'm late to this conversation.

Apart from the aforementioned AQVOX switch, I just discovered Buffalo (Melco's parent co) also makes an audio-grade switch (BS-GS2016/A) at a similar price-point. It's currently only available in Japan but can be shipped anywhere via Amazon JP.

What is an audio-grade switch?
What does the BS stand for in BS-GS2016/A?

I guess if you can try before you buy these items then there is nothing lost if you want to give them a go.

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2017-09-20, 11:56
Post: #18
RE: 2017 Network Setup Guide - recommended devices & Software
I understand they have focused on the power supply to make the unit quieter than a standard commercial grade switch. Btw, I hear on the WBF forum that AQVOX is coming out with an updated switch.



(2017-09-20 00:47)Wat Wrote:  
(2017-09-16 09:54)LINN1989 Wrote:  Sorry I'm late to this conversation.

Apart from the aforementioned AQVOX switch, I just discovered Buffalo (Melco's parent co) also makes an audio-grade switch (BS-GS2016/A) at a similar price-point. It's currently only available in Japan but can be shipped anywhere via Amazon JP.

What is an audio-grade switch?
What does the BS stand for in BS-GS2016/A?

I guess if you can try before you buy these items then there is nothing lost if you want to give them a go.
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2017-09-21, 12:00
Post: #19
RE: 2017 Network Setup Guide - recommended devices & Software
(2017-09-20 00:47)Wat Wrote:  
(2017-09-16 09:54)LINN1989 Wrote:  Sorry I'm late to this conversation.

Apart from the aforementioned AQVOX switch, I just discovered Buffalo (Melco's parent co) also makes an audio-grade switch (BS-GS2016/A) at a similar price-point. It's currently only available in Japan but can be shipped anywhere via Amazon JP.

What is an audio-grade switch?
What does the BS stand for in BS-GS2016/A?

I guess if you can try before you buy these items then there is nothing lost if you want to give them a go.

Heh, BS indeed. Audiophile network switches are the 21st century's wooden volume knob. The switch sends a packet of data to the DS, the DS says, thanks I got that, the switch sends another, after the DS has got a pile of these in it's buffer it starts it's majik. 'jitter' is not relevant in a packet based communication. It is remotely possible that the DS allows random low power signals picked up by the cabling through to other electronic components, but if it does it is utter cr@p, and I do not believe that is true.

Oh and Buffalo have traditionally made relatively cheap low end consumer grade electronics, so if they own Melco....

This subject is one of those that makes us audiophiles a laughing stock.

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2017-09-22, 16:21
Post: #20
RE: 2017 Network Setup Guide - recommended devices & Software
I used to think this was a 'source first' forum. From the above some people seem to have forgotten all that and think the streamer is the source.

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Garage: SBT/Rega DAC; Arcam AVR100; 2x AV5125; Aktiv Ninkas, Trikan, AVSeKretan
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