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Apple Airplay2 - what do you think Linn? A discussion
2017-06-06, 15:54
Post: #1
Apple Airplay2 - what do you think Linn? A discussion
Not looking into starting a "war" but rather to stimulate some discussion.

At yesterdays WWD conference one of the new Apple announcements was the introduction of AirPlay2. The following is the opening list of partners already signed on - with more to follow:

Bang and Olufsen, Polk, Denon, Bowers and Wilkins, Definitive Technology, Devialet, Naim, and Bluesound

After the conference it was reported that developer beta versions of the upcoming OS11 now have the capability to stream full resolution FLAC files via the new Airplay2 protocol.

As a long time KDS user I am completely familiar with Linn's standing mantra of open source and not wanting to lock themselves into a closed proprietary system.

What I fear is Linn losing out on capturing the future generation of HiFi consumers. Lets face it - if one were to analyze the demographics of members of this forum, and I extrapolate that to also include Linn users in general, I believe that we all skew towards the "advanced" age of the spectrum.

As a Naim user of preamplificatioin/amplification I am witness to their move to try and capture the next generation of HiFi enthusiasts. Introductions of products such as the Muso, MusoQB, and the complete rollout of 4 new Uniti boxes attempt to cater to the next generation of users. Naim are already on board as an Airplay2 partner.

The next generation is already used to, and will grow further used to, user interface implementations such as promised by the upcoming Apple HomePod and its integration with Siri. They are already used to interfaces such as Tidal, Spotify and Pandora which, imho, are significantly more advanced than Kazoo.

I am suggesting that Linn may want to take these new developments into consideration. Entry level Majik DSM - why not have users be able to AirPlay2 content from their phone directly to it? Before someone says Songcast - no - it is simply not the same thing - nor what users will want to see. An abandonment of Kazoo and the partnering or introduction to something more contemporary and full featured such as users currently enjoy with Spotify, Apple Music etc?

My fear is that users of the streaming services, comfortable with the full functioning features their apps provide, will look at something like Kazoo, look at the inability to easily push content from their phone in an easy manner, and refuse to "step down" to what Linn is purveying.

Any comments (ducking for cover!)

PS - just stimulating conversation - and hoping that Linn stay around for the next generation of future Audiophiles

Naim 552/500 into Kudos Titans
Cymbiosis Signature LP12/Chris Harban Plinth/Keel/Karmen/Tranquility/Radikal/Urika/Aro/Kandid/Skale/Chord Music/Vulkan shelf
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2017-06-06, 16:01
Post: #2
RE: Apple Airplay2 - what do you think Linn? A discussion
It seems to me that it would be good to include AirPlay 2 as an additional protocol, whilst maintaining open protocols. Closed protocols only become a problem when they are the only protocols. As alternatives, they're fine.

Not sure I'd call the new Uniti products "rolled out" though Wink

Main: N1ZH, AK/0/D; AEDSM; MeiCord AEBox/1; Silvers 2x A4200/1; K400 NSL Exakt dual-mono PMC Twenty.26; Twenty.C; Blacks AV5125 PMC Twenty.21
Playroom: SBT; V-DAC1; Cyrus6; M773e
Garage: SBT/Rega DAC; Arcam AVR100; 2x AV5125; Aktiv Ninkas, Trikan, SeKretan
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2017-06-06, 16:19 (This post was last modified: 2017-06-06 16:19 by glevethan.)
Post: #3
RE: Apple Airplay2 - what do you think Linn? A discussion
(2017-06-06 16:01)sunbeamgls Wrote:  It seems to me that it would be good to include AirPlay 2 as an additional protocol, whilst maintaining open protocols. Closed protocols only become a problem when they are the only protocols. As alternatives, they're fine.

Not sure I'd call the new Uniti products "rolled out" though Wink


Agreed on the "rolled out" comments - at least they are trying Big Grin

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Cymbiosis Signature LP12/Chris Harban Plinth/Keel/Karmen/Tranquility/Radikal/Urika/Aro/Kandid/Skale/Chord Music/Vulkan shelf
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2017-06-06, 16:23 (This post was last modified: 2017-06-06 16:26 by Briain.)
Post: #4
RE: Apple Airplay2 - what do you think Linn? A discussion
I wonder if Apple are permitting third parties to implement the new protocol freely, or whether they expect money for each device upon which it is to be installed? If it is the latter, Linn might have to pay Apple a fee for all DS's that they have ever sold (such that a future firmware update could make the feature available).

KDS/1 (music) + ADSM/3 (AV) -> KK/1 -> 350A + miniDSP time & phase aligned 345 rear sub
ADSM (@ Linn for /3) -> 2250/D -> 212 and Sizmik sub (bedroom)
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2017-06-06, 19:03
Post: #5
RE: Apple Airplay2 - what do you think Linn? A discussion
"As a long time KDS user I am completely familiar with Linn's standing mantra of open source and not wanting to lock themselves into a closed proprietary system."

I find this very well, I use mostly only open source. Usually you are better than buying software. See MS Office = LibreOffice.

One should never forget that it always Linn was brought the innovations in the HiFi market.

Greetings Jörn (sorry for my awful english)
Hörland - Over 40 years LINN
Open Source Seite: http://www.jpo-aktuell.de/OpenSource.php

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2017-06-06, 21:26
Post: #6
RE: Apple Airplay2 - what do you think Linn? A discussion
Anybody point me to AirPlay 2 specs? Besides Flac are there any changes with regards to bitdepth, resolution, clock etc?!

http://www.last.fm/user/mcgillroy

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2017-06-07, 08:10
Post: #7
RE: Apple Airplay2 - what do you think Linn? A discussion
I'd rather see that Linn focuses on own their hardware and software instead of having to create a new interface whenever some company shits out a new shiny protocol to rule the world.

Now it is 4Controls SDDP and Apple, ROON had their RAAT protocol which is luckily circumvented, of course there is still MQA trying to infest our DSs, and in a year or so it will be Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Amazon, Snapchat and probably Oracle and who knows else.

Every protocol will take resources from both Linn as our devices and that cannot help us getting better sound quality.

My 2 cents.
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2017-06-07, 08:32
Post: #8
RE: Apple Airplay2 - what do you think Linn? A discussion
You're right in some ways Tin, but you miss a vital point. Market share.

Linn needs to stick to its open principles but also carefully pick and choose a selected mix of proprietary protocols to run alongside. Tidal an qobuz are good examples. To attract new customers, being compatible with Apple and Android would look to be a wise move in attracting new customers to the fold.

A digital headphone amp would be another one (which also complements the DS line).

Main: N1ZH, AK/0/D; AEDSM; MeiCord AEBox/1; Silvers 2x A4200/1; K400 NSL Exakt dual-mono PMC Twenty.26; Twenty.C; Blacks AV5125 PMC Twenty.21
Playroom: SBT; V-DAC1; Cyrus6; M773e
Garage: SBT/Rega DAC; Arcam AVR100; 2x AV5125; Aktiv Ninkas, Trikan, SeKretan
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2017-06-07, 09:13 (This post was last modified: 2017-06-07 09:19 by glevethan.)
Post: #9
RE: Apple Airplay2 - what do you think Linn? A discussion
(2017-06-07 08:32)sunbeamgls Wrote:  You're right in some ways Tin, but you miss a vital point. Market share.

Linn needs to stick to its open principles but also carefully pick and choose a selected mix of proprietary protocols to run alongside. Tidal an qobuz are good examples. To attract new customers, being compatible with Apple and Android would look to be a wise move in attracting new customers to the fold.

A digital headphone amp would be another one (which also complements the DS line).

Agreed. No use spending time railing against every "shiny protocol which rules the world"

Like it or not some of these protocols are grabbing significant market share. To ignore them (ROON, Spotify, Apple, etc.) and stick your head in the sand will allow you to win the battle but lose the war. You might not have Linn left to make or improve the sound quality of your DS any longer. The only thing for sure is that audiophile dinosaurs will not be around much longer to support the cause. Eventually they will die off with no one left to replace them.

Bottom line is that companies need to look at what is around them and ultimately give consumers what they want - and provide products which perform at a bare minimum the services and tasks that other competing products can do. The alternative is not pretty.

How many under 40's are buying DS's which run Kazoo? How many are using Spotify and Apple Music - and their respective interfaces and capabilities? How many of these will accept an interface or OS with significantly less capabilities? Last I looked people upgrade the OS on their phones and computers - they don't move backwards from iOS 10 to iOS 9 - they move forward to iOS11 - and buy new hardware to run it along the way. I believe that last one keeps companies like Apple - and Linn - in business. Selling new hardware.

Keep on ignoring that "other" group with their shiny new protocols and watch your existing group shrink and dry up. And then???
You won the battle - and lost the war

Naim 552/500 into Kudos Titans
Cymbiosis Signature LP12/Chris Harban Plinth/Keel/Karmen/Tranquility/Radikal/Urika/Aro/Kandid/Skale/Chord Music/Vulkan shelf
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2017-06-07, 09:16
Post: #10
RE: Apple Airplay2 - what do you think Linn? A discussion
(2017-06-07 08:32)sunbeamgls Wrote:  You're right in some ways Tin, but you miss a vital point. Market share.

Linn needs to stick to its open principles but also carefully pick and choose a selected mix of proprietary protocols to run alongside. Tidal an qobuz are good examples. To attract new customers, being compatible with Apple and Android would look to be a wise move in attracting new customers to the fold.

A digital headphone amp would be another one (which also complements the DS line).
The vital point is that Linn will have to make choices and cannot do everything. But sure, marketshare is an issue as well.

It would also be more logical, I think, to have all those protocols in a NAS/Musicserver as they become more and more the centre of our digital homes, instead in our playback devices.

As for the headphone, wouldn't it be cheaper/easier to trade your AEDSM for an ADSM?
Gives you an easier Exakt Surround path as well.
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